friend, by whom that had been asserted, representation of the country, without opposed himself to no mean authority; incurring the hazard of admitting an unnamely, that of Mr. Fox. More than wise and dangerous principle of reform. It once it had been declared by that eminent had sometimes been said, he knew not on individual, that to deprive parties so cir- what ground, that he was not a friend to cumstanced, of such a trust, to take away the agricultural interest; but he felt the from them so valuable a privilege, would less uneasy under an imputation of that be doing that which, in no point of view, nature, as he was persuaded that an could otherwise be regarded than as a enlarged view of the policy which he punishment. Now, whether it was con- always recommended, could not fail to sidered in the light of a punishment or lead to the conclusion, that he had otherwise, one thing at least was certain- uniformly supported those principles which that out of the two cases then before par- were best calculated to promote the liament, they ought not to neglect the general interests of each class, and thereopportunity afforded them--they should fore the good of the whole community. neglect no means likely to attain an end His object on the present occasion would that might be presumed to be useful and certainly be, to confer increased franchises satisfactory to the people. It was his upon the landed interest; but if the two opinion, that before they transferred the cases were taken into account, as it maniprivilege, heretofore possessed by a corrupt festly was intended they should be, then borough, to a great commercial commu- there would be an equality of advantages nity, they should consider how far that act —a great commercial community receiving was in conformity with the great principle benefit in the one case, and a body of the from which they should not depart ; landed proprietors in the other. Upon namely, that of making the transfers these grounds, then, he would support the alternate between the trading and the amendment. landed interests-proceeding always, of Lord Althorp contended, that the right course, according to the circumstances of hon. Secretary for the Home Department each individual case that came before must admit, that, although all the strict parliament. He could not agree with his rules of evidence observed on a penal proright hon. friend, that all the turbulence ceeding were not applicable to the present and riot which sometimes occurred in this proceeding, yet that it was still in some country was confined to places destitute of degree a punishment. In the question, representation. Nottingham afforded a whether the elective franchise hitherto striking instance to the contrary. It was enjoyed by East Retford, be or be not from that, as a centre, that Luddism transferred to the adjoining hundred, he spread itself through the country, extended confessed he had a personal interest; for itself to Manchester, and was productive if the former of these courses were adopted, of perhaps more injury than any other it would confer upon him a vote. Now he similar principle of discord and violence- humbly conceived that that would be Glasgow again is represented [No, no)- giving him more than he could justly lay hon. gentlemen might say No, no,” but any claim to. What right had he to vote he contended, that Glasgow has a repre- for four members. He certainly had no sentative in this House.

desire to do so. He would rather see the A Member.-The fourth part of a repre- privilege, in both instances, conferred upon sentative.

such towns as Birmingham and Manchester. Mr. Huskisson.-- That might be said of | He earnestly called the attention of the any town or county, that it had but the House to the importance of the principle fraction of a member. Nevertheless, he which the present discussion involved, and would repeat his assertion, that Glasgow the expediency of guarding chiefly the had a representative in that House. If interest and feelings of the people. they departed from the principle to which Lord John Russell said, he thought that he had before adverted, they would be some of the reasoning of hon. gentlemen establishing a precedent, which might on the other side told quite differently from carry them lengths far beyond what they what they intended it should do. The first contemplated, and far beyond what two right hon. Secretaries opposite, so far they might receive external support in i from supporting each other, were opposed; carrying into effect; whereas, if they the right hon. Secretary for the Colonies adhered to it, they might improve the having actually given a conclusive reply to

1

TELLERS.

Ord, W.
Stanley, lord

power to declare war, by which that truce Palmer, C. F. Stanley, hon. E.

had been broken, which it had been hoped Pendarvis, E. Stuart, lord J.

would have rendered the Treaty of AkerPhillimore, Dr. Stuart, Villiers

mann more lasting. The consequence of Philips, G. Sykes, D.

this conduct had been, that Russia, with Philips, G. R.

Thompson, ald. Ponsonby, hon. W. Thomson, C. P. out, as he trusted, any motive of self-agPowlett, lord W. Townshend, lord C. grandizement, had been obliged to vindiPoyntz, W.S. Tomes, J.

cate her own interests and honour, by adPrice, R.

Waithman, ald. vancing on those principalities which Protheroe, E. Wall, C. B.

formed the line of defence of Turkey, and Ramsbottom, J. Warburton, H.

which it was no doubt necessary for her Ramsden, J. C. Webb, E. Robarts, A. Whitmore, W.

to occupy, because in all former wars they Robinson, G. Wilbraliam, G.

had been desolated by that country. Such Robinson, sir G. Wilson, sir R. a moment as that appeared to him to Rumbold, C. E. Wood, ald.

render it more necessary than ever that the Russell, lord Ġ, W. Wood, C.

Treaty of the 6th of July should be carried Russell, lord J. Wortley, hon. J. S.

into effect, as it might be the means of Russell, lord W. Wrottesley, sir J.

preventing Russia from pushing forward, Sandon, viscount Wynn, sir C. W. Sefton, earl of

and establishing herself in a position Sebright, sir J.

which would prove most inconvenient'to Smith, J. Tennyson, C.

the general interests of Europe.-But, Smith, w. Normanby, viscount joined with these rumours, there were

sinister reports--reports founded on the HOUSE OF COMMONS.

jealousy of those who wished to see the

honour of England disparaged---reports Monday, March 24.

that sprung from another and new class of GREECE AND TURKEY.] On the order politicians, who were jealous for the mainof the day for going into a committee of tenance of their barbarian friends, and Supply,

who seemed to dread that the Treaty of Sir R. Wilson said, that he rose for the the 6th of July was only got up for the purpose of obtaining information from the partition of Turkey; but, on the contrary, right hon. Secretary opposite, with respect he thought that it would only operate as a to the Treaty that had been entered into on security for the continuance of the polithe 6th of July, and the right hon. gentle- tical existence of Greece. These being man might be assured, that a satisfactory the circumstances of the case, it was necesanswer to the questions which he was sary that they should have a decided deabout to propose, would not only be grate-claration of the intentions of government ful to that House, but to the country on this point; and he therefore hoped generally. He wished to know whether that the right hon. gentleman would state the Treaty of the 6th of July was to be whether it was the intention of ministers maintained by his majesty, under all cir- to support the Treaty of the 6th of July, cumstances ? He knew that various and to fulfil its obligations, without allowdeclarations had been made on this sub- ing any circumstances to occur to induce ject by ministers in that, and the other them to depart from its provisions ?-With House of parliament, to the same effect as respect to the second question, he had, on those which had been delivered from the a former occasion, asked for some informathrone; but since those declarations had tion relative to this topic, but had been been made, new events had occurred, informed, that no despatches had been which induced many persons to believe received from the gallant admiral. What that some change was about to take place, he now wished to ask was, whether any and made it desirable that further explana- order had been renewed to the commandtions on the question should be entered ing officer of our naval force in the Mediinto by ministers. The new circumstances terranean, to prevent any supply of prothat had induced this supposition were visions from being carried to the Turkish notorious. A manifesto, or, at all events, army, and for the purpose of interposing a document which bore an official charac- to prevent the removal of non-combatants ter, had been promulgated by Russia, and from the Morea into Egypt. had produced such a line of conduct in the Mr. Secretary Peel said, he hoped the Ottoman Porte, as to induce the Russian 'hon. member would excuse him if he divided the comments that had fallen from manders of the allied squadron.-With him, from the direct questions which he respect to the removal of persons from the had proposed. The first question that the Morea, to be employed as slaves he had no hon. member had asked was, whether the hesitation in saying, that previous to the king was disposed to adhere to the pro- signature of the Treaty, an intimation was visions of the Treaty of the 6th of July, given to his majesty's government that it was without allowing any circumstances to the intention of Turkey to remove from the interfere in procuring the pacification of Morea the female part of the population Greece ? On that subject, he had to in- and the children, for the purpose of setform the hon. gentleman, that there was tling them in Egypt as slaves; and a disno change whatever in the king's deter- tinct notification was given to Ibrahim mination to do every thing that lay in his Pacha, that so violent an exercise of rights, power to give effect to that Treaty; but if rights they could be called that a feelwhen the hon. gentleman asked whether ing so repugnant to the established usage his majesty would allow any circumstances of civilized nations never would be to interfere with the prosecution of the permitted by his majesty, and that this Treaty, it was evident that he was asking country would certainly resist any attempt him to give an answer to a future and to carry such an object into effect. hypothetical case ; and that it was impossible for any minister of the Crown to PUBLIC BUILDINGS OFFICE or answer on a contingent proposition, such Works.] Sir James Graham said, he rose as the one made by the hon. gentleman : for the purpose of requiring some informait was as much as he could do to repeat tion with respect to the object of a motion that no change had at present taken place which was made by the hon, member for in his majesty's desire and intention of Dorsetshire, between twelve and one fulfilling the provisions of the Treaty. - o'clock on Saturday morning. The hon. The hon. gentleman had next referred to member on that occasion moved for a certain changes which had taken place in select committee to inquire into the state the relations between Turkey and Russia. of the Public Buildings in the Department On this point it was sufficient for him to of the Office of Works, and into the applistate, that no official information had cation of part of the land revenue of the reached this country on the subject—no Crown, under certain statutes. He cerdeclaration of war by Russia against tainly expected, that the hon. member Turkey had been received nothing was would have stated the reason which led known to have occurred to change the him to institute such an inquiry. His situation in which Russia stood at the time surprise was therefore very great, when when the Treaty of the 6th of July was the hon. member made his motion, withconcluded. Whatever apprehensions the out assigning a single reason for it, or hon. gentleman might entertain on the pointing out the precise object which he subject, he felt that he should best perform had in view. He hesitated at the moment, his duty by not discussing it, until positive as to whether it was his duty to ask for an information was received by his majesty's explanation ; but believing that nothing government. The second question put by unsatisfactory would result from the comthe hon. gentleman was, whether or not mittee, he did not deem it necessary to orders had been renewed, directing the say any thing in opposition to the motion. officer commanding the naval force in the But a little reflection had convinced him Mediterranean to continue the blockade that it was necessary to come to a right of those ports of the Morea which were understanding of the motives which had occupied by the Turks? In answer to induced the hon. member to move for a that he would state, that previous to the committee. He certainly was of opinion, battle of Navarino, orders were given to that this subject would naturally come under the admiral commanding the combined the inquiry of the Finance Committee. squadron to institute a blockade of those Promises had been made of a reduction of ports in the Morea that were held by the expense in this department; but although Turks or Egyptians, and to prevent rein- those promises had not been kept, yet he forcements being supplied to them. After believed the public were content to wait the battle of Navarino those instructions for the result of an inquiry, to be instiwere considered as remaining in full force, tuted by the Finance Committee, with reand they had been acted on by the com- | ference to this subject. In those hands he

thought the inquiry to which he alluded this Select Committee ; and it would be should have been placed, and he was pre- satisfactory also, if ministers would depared to contend against any change in clare what their views of this case were. the tribunal before which the investigation -Hereafter, he hoped, notwithstanding ought to take place. It would be invidious what might be done by the Select Comto anatomize the materials of which the mittee, that the Finance Committee would hon. member's select committee was consti- inquire into the whole question of the tuted. But he would say, that four of its Woods and Forests Department, and also members, either by the offices they held at into the expenditure of the Crown for the present, or by their recent connexion with building of palaces. office, were open to a peremptory chal- Mr. Bankes said, that his reason for lenge, and two of them would stand in a not entering into an explanation on the peculiarly strange situation—that of sit- former occasion was, because he was not ting in judgment on their own conduct. aware that any was required. As to his The hon. member for Dorsetshire had said, having made his motion at so late an hour that the committee was not constituted for he could not avoid it: if he had postponed the purpose of inquiring into the money his motion to Monday, it was very doubtexpenditure, but only into the style of ful whether he could have brought it forarchitecture adopted in the repair and ward. After listening with great attenerection of palaces, and to consider whe- tion to what had fallen from the hon. ther any trees had been improperly cut baronet, he could not see what the object down by Mr. Nash. He certainly con- was for which the hon. baronet wished him gratulated the hon. member, and the Mas- to give an answer. The hon. baronet seemed ter of the Mint, on the escape which they to complain of his having taken a partihad made from the erroneous labours of cular subject out of the hands of the the Finance Committee, by undertaking Finance Committee. Was the Finance Comwhat he might call the trifling labours of mittee to embrace every subject of inquiry the Select Committee, for which the hon. before the House ?

Was it not compemember had moved. He, however, feared tent to every member to take up any parthat the Master of the Mint and the chief ticular subject, if he thought it could in commissioner of Woods and Forests, backed any other way be more fairly considered, by the majority of this committee, would than it could be before the Finance Comextend the inquiry, and force the commit- mittee? Did the hon. baronet know what tee, against the better judgment of the a mass of business was at present before hon. member and of other gentlemen who the Finance Committee. He was not were placed on it, to go into the question aware that the subject to which his moof expenditure. They might take a glance tion referred would come before that at that subject, to stifle a more rigorous committee. He did not think that they inquiry before the Finance Committee itself. would have time to entertain it before A favourable report might be given as to the the next session. The hon. baronet had expenditure; and, in consequence of that objected to the manner in which the slight inquiry, the subject might be over-committee was constituted, and there looked by the Finance Committee. Now, seemed to be a sort of oblique insinuahe wished to guard against this. He was tion, as if he had moved for the comdesirous that the subject should be left in mittee, for the purpose of screening some the hands of the Finance Committee, and individuals whose conduct was likely to that it should not hereafter be urged, as a be overhauled in the Finance Committee. reason for not submitting it to the in- Now, what purpose had he to answer-vestigation of the Finance Committee, that what advantage was he likely to receive in an imperfect inquiry had already taken moving for this committee? What beneplace before an unfit committee. Such a fit would it be to him to screen persons proceeding should not be an obstacle to a who were guilty? The hon. baronet fair and full investigation of the expendi- asked what was the object of the comture. He stated this fairly, openly, and mittee? There were two principal views honestly, because he was anxious to guard connected with the formation of the comhimself against that which was not un- mittee—one related to the public expenlikely to occur. Perhaps the hon, mem- diture, and the other to national taste. ber would have the kindness state what Both were fit objects for the consideration limits were to be laid down for the labours of of parliament. If they saw a large ex