that while he fully admitted the right of that House to make any amendment, however important, in the bill, yet he thought that any essential change in the bill from the state in which it had come down from the other House, ought to be deprecated, as being calculated to endanger the passing of the bill, at this advanced period of the Session. Mr. Hawes should not oppose the bill, though it was very far indeed from being the wholesome and salutary measure to which he had on a former occasion given his assent, and although he considered that while taking away the right of arrest by mesne process, it did not afford adequate means for the recovery of the property of debtors. Imperfect as the bill was, however, he hailed it as a contribution to a better state of things. Bill read a second time. AFFIRMATIONS INSTEAD OF OATHS.] Lord Denman moved the Order of the Day for the House going into Committee on the Affirmation Bill. The Duke of Wellington feared, that unless great circumspection were used, this bill would have the effect of encouraging a species of inferior evidence in judicial cases. He suggested, that those who meant to avail themselves of the provisions of the bill, should previously procure a certificate setting forth their scruples, which certificate should be granted without expense, and should be renewed annually. Lord Denman had no objection to adopt the suggestion of the noble Duke. sion should be made in this bill calling on individuals to make known their sentiments on the subject of taking oaths, before the occasion arose when they might wish, in a court of justice, to make a declaration. Individuals ought not to be allowed to take that course on the spur of the moment. Lord Ellenborough agreed in the propriety of what had fallen from the noble Lord. If some such precaution were not adopted, alibi-men would be found ready on all occasions to make these declarations, and the effect would be most injurious to the interests of justice. The Earl of Haddington objected to the provisions of the bill being extended to Scotland. The Earl of Wicklow had attended the Committee on this bill, which certainly, compared with what it was, had been considerably improved. If, however, it were a good measure for this country, he could not see why the noble Earl should wish to exempt Scotland from its operation. He was willing, by a measure of this nature, to give relief to that extent, but to that extent only, which appeared to be necessary. But the present measure went far beyond that; because it went to give to every person, no matter of what religious creed, who preferred an affirmation to an oath, the opportunity of taking the former. That, he maintained, was giving relief to a much greater extent than the evil required. Although he admitted, that the bill had been much improved in Committee, still, if a vote were taken on the subject, he should vote against it. The Earl of Haddington said, if this measure were found necessary for Scotland, he should not object to it. But he thought it would be extremely hard to pass it, when no communication had been received from Scotland on the subject. Lord Ashburton said, that he was not aware that this bill had been called for by any of the judges, nor were their Lordships acquainted with the opinions of magistrates, or of chairmen of quarter sessions on the subject. Considering how little their Lordships knew of it, and the late period at which it had been presented to their attention, he thought, that no great inconvenience would follow if it were deferred till next Session; and he therefore moved, that it be committed that day Lord Ashburton said, it would be better, in his opinion, if a general measure, extending to all classes, were passed; and that the particular privileges now granted to certain sects only, should be removed. As the law now stood, and would stand under this bill, one mode of affirmation was allowed to one body, and another to a different body. He thought that provi-six months. Bill went through the Committee, and was reported. MUNICIPAL CORPORATIONS (IRELAND).] On the Order of the Day for the Committee on the Municipal Corporations (Ireland) Bill being read, to ascertain what were the opinions of | be afraid to take that oath, but had not those who might be supposed competent that moral feeling which told them that to form a correct judgment on this ques- the essence of an oath lay in its truth. tion. If, however, the noble Duke con- Amendment agreed to. tended that this bill ought to be submitted to the judges at large, and that its fate should rest upon their decision, that, he apprehended, was a novelty in the practice of legislation. For his own part, he contended that their Lordships, who exercised a presiding care over justice-and he called upon them to do so as a matter of duty-were bound to decide whether the persons to whom this bill related, should or should not, be kept out of the pale of the law. He did not exactly know in what situation the House now stood. He had understood the noble Lord to say, that he would withdraw his motion; but the noble Duke said, that he would oppose the bill. Having, however, taken up the bill from a sense of public duty, he felt that it was a duty to the public not to abandon it; and he should therefore persevere in his motion, that the bill be now committed. Lord Brougham submitted, that the House was bound, out of respect to the Select Committee to whom the bill had been referred, to allow the bill to be considered in a Committee of the whole House. This course would be much the more convenient, and would not, in the least, damage the opposition to the bill. He should therefore suggest, that without further delay, the bill should go through Committee. Perhaps something would be done in Committee, which might remove the objections now entertained to the bill. Their Lordships went into Committee. The Earl of Haddington rose to move, as an amendment on clause 1,-first, that its provisions should not extend to Scotland. In that country, an oath was administered in the most solemn manner. It was administered by the judge who presided, amid profound silence, and each individual, holding up his right hand to heaven, swore by the Almighty himself, and as he should answer to God at the great day of judgment. The people of that country had a most profound veneration for an oath. He was, however, sorry to learn that false swearing had of late become more common in Scotland than it had been; and he was apprehensive that the affirmation would be taken advantage of by all persons in Scotland who were unwilling or immoral witnesses, who would Lord Lyndhurst said, that he had been requested by several noble Lords on his side of the House, to submit to the consideration of their Lordships, on going into Committee on the bill, certain material and important amendments, and he thought it would be most convenient in this stage of the proceeding, and before going into Committee, both from the nature of the measure, and the character of those amendments, that he should now generally state their nature, in order, that their Lordships might view them in connexion one with the other, and be better able to judge of their propriety, when the amendments came on successively in Committee. He was perfectly sensible of the demands generally upon their Lordships' time, and at this period of the claims upon their Lordships' hospitality, and he therefore assured the House, that in what he was about to state, he would endeavour to compress that which he had to communicate within the narrowest possible compass. His noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington), in the last Session of Parliament, had stated to their Lordships, that he conceived, from the prospect of a bill for the settlement of Irish tithes being probably passed, and also from the circumstance that it was probable that a bill for the purpose of granting relief to the poor in Ireland, would likewise be passed into a law, that a very considerable portion of the difficulties of the measure now under their Lordships' consideration would, by the passing of the two bills to which he had adverted, be removed. The noble Viscount, at the head of her Majesty's Government at that time, expressed his satisfaction at the communication then made by the noble Duke, but, at the same time, took occasion to state to their Lordships, that he did not distinctly see what connexion there was between the question of tithes, and the question of granting Municipal Corporations to Ireland. He believed, that if the noble Viscount did not see the connexion, the noble Viscount and to the people of Ireland, that the was the only individual in the House who qualification should not be merely nominal, did not. For several years, the subject of but should answer the purposes intended. Irish tithes had created great agitation in Now, these two great measures to which Ireland, where persons, from time to time, he had alluded-the Irish Tithe Bill, and had been most active in their opposition the Irish Poor Relief Bill-though not to them; and it was considered, by every actually passed, were now in progress. person acquainted with the history of Ire With regard to one of these bills, he had land, that the Municipal Corporations expressed his opinion some time since, established in that country were, for the and he had seen nothing in its progress most part, so established, to protect the to induce him to alter those opinions: Protestant religion and the Protestant but when he had found they were but Church, in that part of the United King- little consistent with those entertained by dom. And it was also considered by his the majority of the House, he did not now noble Friend (the Duke of Wellington), think it necessary further to press them and by him, to be of great importance that upon their Lordships. He, therefore, would these barriers of protection should not be say nothing further on that measure, exremoved, and that it was even of still cept that it gave the test of rating, which more importance, that in removing those could be well applied to the Irish Munibarriers (if at all), corporations of a dif- cipal Corporation Bill now under their ferent character should not be established, Lordships' consideration, and gave the until at least the important question of security of a good and substantial qualiIrish tithes should be set at rest. He fication. These were the only general imagined that his noble Friend felt this observations which he intended to make, when he made the remarks which the and he now therefore came at once to the noble Viscount opposite on the occasion in statement of the amendments which it was question had adverted to. Now, at the his intention to submit to the House; and present moment, their Lordships had the in doing so, he should not go out of his prospect, that the question with respect way to state a single fact or circumstance, to tithes in Ireland, would come to some except only such as were necessary to settlement; and with respect to the other render the amendments intelligible. Now, measure, which had been mentioned by his in the first place, it would be found, that noble Friend-he meant the Poor Relief the bill had two schedules, A. and B. Bill for Ireland, a measure which connected Schedule A contained a list of eleven itself with the subject in a very important cities and towns, each of which contained, way-he presumed he might consider it as not only a considerable, but a very extenpassed. In order to establish corporations sive population; it would be found, also, in Ireland, in which he and others would that every one of them had already corbe disposed to place confidence, it was porations possessing large amounts of pronecessary to have a secure and substantial perty. There was no intention, therefore, qualification, and it was idle to talk of a on his, (Lord Lyndhurst's) side of the qualification of 107. value, unless there House, to make any exception whatever was something devised to put that value in granting corporations to the cities and to the test. When he said it was idle to towns enumerated in schedule A, according talk of a 107, value, without some test, he to the conditions ultimately to be settled need only refer their Lordships to the in the bill. But when their lordships came evidence taken before the select committee to schedule B, they would find a numerous of the other House of Parliament, on the list of towns of a very different class and subject of fictitious votes, to show how character from those contained in schelittle reliance could be placed on a quali-dule A; and that it was so considered by fication of that description, unless it was the framers of the bill was manifest, from marked and checked by something else, the circumstance of those towns being and therefore it had no doubt been con- inserted in a separate and distinct schesidered by his noble Friend (the Duke of dule. The towns in schedule B differed Wellington) that the Irish Poor-law Bill established a system of rating in that country, which would afford a sufficient check and test of the amount of the qualification, and give a security to this country from those in schedule A, not only in |