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public men in national affairs; but all that was required under the Municipal franchise, was, that the voter should be able to tell whether the town was well and rightly governed, whether the local affairs were properly conducted, whether the charities were properly administered; and he said, that the most unlettered and unlearned individual in the town was as capable of forming a right opinion as to who was best to trust and to vote for in his own town for town affairs as the clergyman, the banker, the attorney, or the best educated man in the borough. He believed, that there was some fear of Catholics promoting Catholic ascendancy by pursuing a just cause, but he thought that it was niggardly and improper to legislate on such grounds. He considered it both foolish and shameful to give a higher qualification to Ireland than was required in England. For these reasons he objected to the noble and learned Lord's amendments, although he would not object to the settlement of these too long unsettled questions upon the basis now proposed, the ground of his acquiescence being, that it would not be possible for many years to retain the test which was now proposed, for so surely as the system of rating should be a few years in operation, would the Irish have strong grounds for re-opening the question. They would appeal to their Lordships for justice, and he thought that their appeal to the justice of that House, and upon such grounds, must be attended with suc

cess.

Report received.

HOUSE OF COMMONS,

Tuesday, July 17, 1838. MINUTES) Bill Read a third time-Port of London

Coal Trade.

Petitions presented. By Mr. Boris, from Salisbury,

against the County-rate Bill-By Mr. PiGOTT, from

Woodstock, against the Beer Ack-By Sir C. STYLE,

from Stockton-on-Tees, and by Mr. A. Sours, from Norwich, against Encouragement of Idolatrous Worship in Mba By Mr. P. Maves, from Elgin, in favour of the Scots Burghs BIL-By Captain ALSAGER, against the Grant to MaynoothBy Mr. E. Hayes, from Donegal, for the restoration of the Suppressed Bishoprics; and against the Natimal system of Education in Ireland-By Colonel ANSON. From a place in Stafordshire, for an im

proved system of General Bulucation. By Mr. LANGS DALE, from a gentibus named Walker, against the Abe bison of Imprisonment for Debt B-BY ME, MA, thom New Ross, and by Lord Cravers, from Roscom | 000, compmining of Grievances ma the Sporit trades

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Russell moved the appointment of the Committee on Militia Estimates.

Mr. Hume objected. He did not see that any benefit could result from its labours, and he did not believe, that in time of war the militia staff would be anything but useless.

Lord John Russell had consulted the Duke of Wellington upon this point, and he found that the opinion of the noble Duke differed very much from that of the hou. Member for Kilkenny.

Mr. Divett said, that it was impossible if a war broke out, that a militia staff could be of any use whatever.

Lord John Russell intended to introduce a measure by which the militia force would be rendered more effective.

Colonel Salwey said, that the militia was a most useful and constitutional force, and he regretted, that the noble Lord had taken the advice of the Duke of Wellington and reduced it. If the noble Lord would take the advice of his political friends they would be much better pleased.

Mr. Hume moved, that the committee have power to send for persons, papers, and records. He was desirous, as the committee was appointed, to have the subject fully investigated.

Sir H. Hardinge said, that if the hon. Member wanted to take the committee out of the hands of Government, he had better move for a select committee.

Mr. Hodges hoped, that the noble Lord (Lord John Russell) would take for the basis of any measure affecting the militia, a rule, that whenever they were assembled at any time they should be subject to martial law.

Lord John Russell said, he thought it better that an inquiry such as that proposed by the hon. Member for Kilkenny should be instituted at the commencement of the next Session.

The House divided on Mr. Hume's motion: Ayes 25; Noes 102: Majority 77. List of the AYES.

Aglionby, Major
Brotherton, J.
Bryan, G.
Chalmers, P.
Collins, W.
Easthope, J.
Finch, F.
Gillon, W. D.
Grote, G.

Lord John Hastie, A.

Hector, C. J. Kinnaird, hon. A. Lushington, C. Martin, J. Muskett, G. A.

Pattison, J. Pechell, Capt. Salwey, Colonel

Sheil, R. L.

Stansfield, W. R.

the

Stewart, J.

Yates, J. A.

Thornely, T.

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TELLERS.

List of the NOES.

A'Court, Captain
Adam, Admiral

Alsager, Captain
Alston, R.

Anson, hon. Col.
Barnard, E. G.
Barrington, Viscount
Bernal, R.
Blackburne, I.
Blackstone, W.
Boldero, H. G.
Bowes, J.
Broadley, H.
Brodie, W. B.
Bruges, W. H. L.
Buller, Sir J. Y.
Campbell, Sir J.
Canning, Sir S.
Chute, W. L. W.
Conyngham, Lord
Corry, hon. H.
Craig, W. G.
Darby, G.
Denison, W. J.
Douglas, Sir C. E.
Dunbar, G.

Elliot, hon. J. E.

Dundas, hon. T. Egerton, W. T.

Ferguson, R.

Filmer, Sir E.

Fleetwood, Sir P.

Freshfield, J. W.

Gladstone, W. E.

Gordon, Captain

Gore, O. W.

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Hughes, W. B.
Hurst, R. H.
Hurt, F.
Ingham, R.
James, W.
James, Sir W. C.
Knight, H. G.
Labouchere, H.
Langton, W. G.
Lincoln, Earl of
Lowther, J. H.
Lygon, hon. General
Mackenzie, T.
Mahon, Viscount
Maule, hon. F,
Mildmay, P. St. J.
Miles, P. W. S
Parker, J.
Parker, R. T.
Patten, J. W.
Perceval, Colonel
Perceval, hon. G.
Ponsonby, hon. J.
Praed, W. M.
Praed, W. T.
Price, Sir R.
Pryme, G.
Pusey, P.
Rushbrooke, R.
Russell, Lord J.
Sanford, E. A.
Seymour, Lord
Sibthorp, Col.

Somerset, Lord G.
Stanley, E. J.
Stanley, Lord
Stuart, Lord J.
Sturt, H. C.
Sugden, Sir E.
Thomson, C. P.
Vere, Sir C. B.
Vivian, Sir R. H.
Waddington, H.
Walsh, Sir J.
White, A.
Wilmot, Sir J.

Wood, T.
Worsley, Lord
Wyndham, W.

TELLERS.

Burrell, Sir C. Steuart, R.

GLASS DUTIES.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the third reading of the Glass Duties Bill.

Sir C. B. Vere wished to put a question to the right hon. Gentleman with respect to an invention of a gentleman of

the name of Rutledge, of an instrument, for ascertaining the quality and quantity of spirits distilled during the process of distillation. Such an invention would be a benefit to the distillers and also to the country. A report had been made by Dr. Birkbeck, which was favourable to the invention, and, he understood, that Professors Lubbock and Brande also spoke favourably of it. He wished to know whether any step had been taken by Government to test the invention ?

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, it was true that, for some time, the attention of the Government had been called to the invention of Mr. Rutledge, and he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was satisfied, that if the experiment proved successful the result would be most important to the trade of this country and to the revenue. When he recollected the amount of public revenue that was derived from spirits, he felt it was his duty to approach such a subject with the greatest caution. He had availed himself of the services of some eminent men of science to consider this subject. Dr. Birkbeck entered into the fullest details, and he was, at the present time, of opinion, that the instrument would answer all the purposes for which it was intended. Two other eminent men, Professors Lubbock and Brande, had also expressed a favourable opinion, but they had not given the subject quite so much of their attention as Dr. Birkbeck. Three experiments had been tried in connexion with the Board of Excise, but no experiment testing the amount used as compared with the total amount of spirits produced had as yet been brought to a final result. He could only add, that he was taking the best means of bringing the matter to a final result, and if it succeeded no man would be more gratified than himself at such success.

The bill read a third time.

Mr. Hawkes then moved the insertion of the following clause: "And be it further enacted, that no maker or makers of glass shall make of common bottle metal any bottle or bottles smaller, or of less deemed or reputed an half-pint bottle; size or content, than what is commonly and if any maker or makers of glass shall or bottles smaller, or of less size or conmake of common bottle metal, any bottle tent than aforesaid, the maker or makers of glass so offending shall, for every such

offence, forfeit and lose the sum of fifty | Stansfield, W. R.
pounds." The object of the clause was
to protect the makers of flint-glass, who,
paying a much higher duty than the green-
glass manufacturers, were in the habit of
converting their refuse materials into
small medical bottles, in which they
would be unequally competed with by the
green-glass manufacturers, unless this
provision was inserted.

The Chancellor of the Exchequer said,
that, upon a review of the whole subject,
and after consulting the parties interested
in it out of door, who were, of course,
much divided upon it, he was inclined to
think, that a case had not been made out
for the insertion of this restriction, and he
should maintain the bill as it stood.
The House divided: Ayes 28; Noes
66; Majority 38.

List of the AYES.

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Surrey, Earl of
Tancred, H. W.
Turner, E.
Thornely, T.
Vigors, N. A.
Villiers, C. P.
Vivian, J. H.
Wall, C. B.
Wallace, R.
Warburton, H.

Ward, H. G. Wilbraham, G. Williams, W. Wood, C. Wood, G. W. Worsley, Lord Yates, J. A.

TELLERS

Seymour, Lord Steuart, R. Clause rejected, and bill passed.

the motion of the Attorney-general, the
REGISTRATION OF ELECTORS.] On
House went into Committee for the further
consideration of the report of the Registra-
tion of Electors Bill.

barristers power to give costs,
On Clause 49, giving to the revising

Mr. Aglionby moved an amendment to the effect that costs should be given in those cases only in which the persons objected to had previously been on the registry of

voters.

Mr. Praed was inclined to support the amendment, but thought it would be advisable to fine the frivolous objector 10s., and not hear any of his other objections till the fine was paid. If no better course were suggested he would move a clause to that effect.

The Attorney General expressed his doubts of the expediency of adopting either of the suggestions that had been made, but thought the subject well worthy of consideration.

Estcourt, T.

Filmer, Sir E.

Grimsditch, T.
Hope, hon. C.
Hope, G. W.

Hughes, W. B.

Lowther, J. H.

Lygon, hon. Gen.

Parker, R. T.

Philips, M.

Praed, W. M.

Reid, Sir J. R.

List of the NOES.

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The Committee divided on the amendment. Ayes 39; Noes 86; Majority 47. List of the AVES.

Nicholl, J.

Parker, R. T.
Pechell, Capt.
Perceval, Col.

Praed, W. M.

Salwey, Colonel
Sandon, Viscount
Somerville, Sir W.
Stansfield, W. R.
Stewart, J.
Style, Sir C.
Tancred, H. W.
Vigors, N. A.
Wallace, R.
Williams, W.
Wood, T.
Worsley, Lord
Yates, J. A.

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List of the NOES.

Blandford, Marquess

Bowes, J.
Briscoe, J. I.

Broadley, H.

Bruges, W. H. L.
Campbell, Sir J.
Curry, W.
Darby, G.

Elliot, hon. J. E.

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Mackinnon, W. A.
Mildway, P. St. J.
Miles, P. W. S.
O'Ferrall, R. M.
Palmerston, Viscount
Parnell, Sir II.
Pendarves, E. W.
Perceval, hon. G. J.
Philips, M.
Phillpotts, J.
Polhill, F.
Rice, rt. hon. T. S.
Rolfe, Sir R. M.
Rushbrooke, Col.
Russell, Lord J.
Sheppard, T.
Sibthorp, Colonel
Smith, R. V.
Sugden, Sir E.
Surrey, Earl
Troubridge, Sir E.
Turner, E.
Vere, Sir C. B.
Waddington, H. S.
Wilbraham, G.
Wood, G.
Wood, G. W.

TELLERS.

Parker, J.
Pryme, G.

Clause agreed to.
Dr. Nicholl proposed the insertion of
clauses providing that the revising barris-
ters shall be enabled to reserve cases for
the opinion of the superior courts of com-
mon law, which cases shall be heard in
the vacation after the Michaelmas term
next ensuing; that, in the mean time, the
revising barrister shall give his own opinion
on the case, and shall send that opinion to
one of the superior courts at Westminster,
which shall hear counsel on the case, and
that the decision of such court shall be
final.

The Attorney General objected to the
clauses. He felt as strongly as any one
the necessity of some court of appeal from
the decision of the revising barristers, for
the purpose of attaining uniformity, but it
was clear, that this would not be the pro-
per court of appeal. He had the most
sincere reverence for the judges of our
courts at Westminster, but he should be
most reluctant to refer to them questions
of a purely political nature. It was essen-
tial that the administration of justice in
Westminster-hall should remain without
suspicion; but it would be impossible to
secure even the most upright of judges
from some suspicion in the minds of one
party or another if he were to be called

"Think

VOL. XLIV {i}

upon to decide questions of a political nature. Besides, the courts at Westminster were already so overwhelmed with their own business that it was out of the question to impose any extraneous business on them. He hoped it would be part of the object of the right hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth to provide a proper and effective court of appeal. Such an object had formed part of the plan of the hon. Member for Liskeard. He had waited

with great anxiety to hear what the right hon. Baronet had to propose on this point, but he could not consent for a moment to the present proposition.

Sir E. Sugden was inclined to support the clauses. The questions which would come before the judges would not be political questions,but essentially questions of property, which would very fitly come before the superior courts of law. He did not see,that the additional weight of business would materially inconvenience the judges, nor did he see, that their decisions would for a moment be regarded with suspicion. He was not himself aware of any pressure of business on the courts at Westminster which could be regarded as other than a were liable to be stigmatised for an incimerely temporary pressure. If the judges dental decision which might happen to be unpopular, how hard would be the case of those who should be appointed for the sole purpose of deciding appeals in those cases. The opinions of the latter would be in no degree respected, and they would be liable to be regarded as mere political partisans. If the hon. Gentleman pressed the clauses to a division, he should vote with him, but he should suggest to him to postpone them to a future state of the bill, when they might be more advantageously discussed.

decisions of judges on political questions, Mr. Warburton had no respect for the particularly when he recollected how the rights and properties of corporations had been gradually undermined by decisions of the judges of the land. rights of the people and the privileges of He thought the the House would be greatly endangered by making the judges a court of appeal on questions of this kind.

ber of the questions at present decided by Mr. Praed observed, that a great numthe courts of laws at Westminster were of a political character, yet the decisions of the judges in such cases were not regarded with suspicion. A great many new questions of a political character had been

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