public men in national affairs; but all that was required under the Municipal franchise, was, that the voter should be able to tell whether the town was well and rightly governed, whether the local affairs were properly conducted, whether the charities were properly administered; and he said, that the most unlettered and unlearned individual in the town was as capable of forming a right opinion as to who was best to trust and to vote for in his own town for town affairs as the clergyman, the banker, the attorney, or the best educated man in the borough. He believed, that there was some fear of Catholics promoting Catholic ascendancy by pursuing a just cause, but he thought that it was niggardly and improper to legislate on such grounds. He considered it both foolish and shameful to give a higher qualification to Ireland than was required in England. For these reasons he objected to the noble and learned Lord's amendments, although he would not object to the settlement of these too long unsettled questions upon the basis now proposed, the ground of his acquiescence being, that it would not be possible for many years to retain the test which was now proposed, for so surely as the system of rating should be a few years in operation, would the Irish have strong grounds for re-opening the question. They would appeal to their Lordships for justice, and he thought that their appeal to the justice of that House, and upon such grounds, must be attended with suc cess. Report received. HOUSE OF COMMONS, Tuesday, July 17, 1838. MINUTES) Bill Read a third time-Port of London Coal Trade. Petitions presented. By Mr. Boris, from Salisbury, against the County-rate Bill-By Mr. PiGOTT, from Woodstock, against the Beer Ack-By Sir C. STYLE, from Stockton-on-Tees, and by Mr. A. Sours, from Norwich, against Encouragement of Idolatrous Worship in Mba By Mr. P. Maves, from Elgin, in favour of the Scots Burghs BIL-By Captain ALSAGER, against the Grant to MaynoothBy Mr. E. Hayes, from Donegal, for the restoration of the Suppressed Bishoprics; and against the Natimal system of Education in Ireland-By Colonel ANSON. From a place in Stafordshire, for an im proved system of General Bulucation. By Mr. LANGS DALE, from a gentibus named Walker, against the Abe bison of Imprisonment for Debt B-BY ME, MA, thom New Ross, and by Lord Cravers, from Roscom | 000, compmining of Grievances ma the Sporit trades Russell moved the appointment of the Committee on Militia Estimates. Mr. Hume objected. He did not see that any benefit could result from its labours, and he did not believe, that in time of war the militia staff would be anything but useless. Lord John Russell had consulted the Duke of Wellington upon this point, and he found that the opinion of the noble Duke differed very much from that of the hou. Member for Kilkenny. Mr. Divett said, that it was impossible if a war broke out, that a militia staff could be of any use whatever. Lord John Russell intended to introduce a measure by which the militia force would be rendered more effective. Colonel Salwey said, that the militia was a most useful and constitutional force, and he regretted, that the noble Lord had taken the advice of the Duke of Wellington and reduced it. If the noble Lord would take the advice of his political friends they would be much better pleased. Mr. Hume moved, that the committee have power to send for persons, papers, and records. He was desirous, as the committee was appointed, to have the subject fully investigated. Sir H. Hardinge said, that if the hon. Member wanted to take the committee out of the hands of Government, he had better move for a select committee. Mr. Hodges hoped, that the noble Lord (Lord John Russell) would take for the basis of any measure affecting the militia, a rule, that whenever they were assembled at any time they should be subject to martial law. Lord John Russell said, he thought it better that an inquiry such as that proposed by the hon. Member for Kilkenny should be instituted at the commencement of the next Session. The House divided on Mr. Hume's motion: Ayes 25; Noes 102: Majority 77. List of the AYES. Aglionby, Major Lord John Hastie, A. Hector, C. J. Kinnaird, hon. A. Lushington, C. Martin, J. Muskett, G. A. Pattison, J. Pechell, Capt. Salwey, Colonel Sheil, R. L. Stansfield, W. R. the Stewart, J. Yates, J. A. Thornely, T. TELLERS. List of the NOES. A'Court, Captain Alsager, Captain Anson, hon. Col. Elliot, hon. J. E. Dundas, hon. T. Egerton, W. T. Ferguson, R. Filmer, Sir E. Fleetwood, Sir P. Freshfield, J. W. Gladstone, W. E. Gordon, Captain Gore, O. W. Hughes, W. B. Somerset, Lord G. Wood, T. TELLERS. Burrell, Sir C. Steuart, R. GLASS DUTIES.] The Chancellor of the Exchequer moved the third reading of the Glass Duties Bill. Sir C. B. Vere wished to put a question to the right hon. Gentleman with respect to an invention of a gentleman of the name of Rutledge, of an instrument, for ascertaining the quality and quantity of spirits distilled during the process of distillation. Such an invention would be a benefit to the distillers and also to the country. A report had been made by Dr. Birkbeck, which was favourable to the invention, and, he understood, that Professors Lubbock and Brande also spoke favourably of it. He wished to know whether any step had been taken by Government to test the invention ? The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, it was true that, for some time, the attention of the Government had been called to the invention of Mr. Rutledge, and he (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) was satisfied, that if the experiment proved successful the result would be most important to the trade of this country and to the revenue. When he recollected the amount of public revenue that was derived from spirits, he felt it was his duty to approach such a subject with the greatest caution. He had availed himself of the services of some eminent men of science to consider this subject. Dr. Birkbeck entered into the fullest details, and he was, at the present time, of opinion, that the instrument would answer all the purposes for which it was intended. Two other eminent men, Professors Lubbock and Brande, had also expressed a favourable opinion, but they had not given the subject quite so much of their attention as Dr. Birkbeck. Three experiments had been tried in connexion with the Board of Excise, but no experiment testing the amount used as compared with the total amount of spirits produced had as yet been brought to a final result. He could only add, that he was taking the best means of bringing the matter to a final result, and if it succeeded no man would be more gratified than himself at such success. The bill read a third time. Mr. Hawkes then moved the insertion of the following clause: "And be it further enacted, that no maker or makers of glass shall make of common bottle metal any bottle or bottles smaller, or of less deemed or reputed an half-pint bottle; size or content, than what is commonly and if any maker or makers of glass shall or bottles smaller, or of less size or conmake of common bottle metal, any bottle tent than aforesaid, the maker or makers of glass so offending shall, for every such offence, forfeit and lose the sum of fifty | Stansfield, W. R. The Chancellor of the Exchequer said, List of the AYES. Surrey, Earl of Ward, H. G. Wilbraham, G. Williams, W. Wood, C. Wood, G. W. Worsley, Lord Yates, J. A. TELLERS Seymour, Lord Steuart, R. Clause rejected, and bill passed. the motion of the Attorney-general, the barristers power to give costs, Mr. Aglionby moved an amendment to the effect that costs should be given in those cases only in which the persons objected to had previously been on the registry of voters. Mr. Praed was inclined to support the amendment, but thought it would be advisable to fine the frivolous objector 10s., and not hear any of his other objections till the fine was paid. If no better course were suggested he would move a clause to that effect. The Attorney General expressed his doubts of the expediency of adopting either of the suggestions that had been made, but thought the subject well worthy of consideration. Estcourt, T. Filmer, Sir E. Grimsditch, T. Hughes, W. B. Lowther, J. H. Lygon, hon. Gen. Parker, R. T. Philips, M. Praed, W. M. Reid, Sir J. R. List of the NOES. The Committee divided on the amendment. Ayes 39; Noes 86; Majority 47. List of the AVES. Nicholl, J. Parker, R. T. Praed, W. M. Salwey, Colonel List of the NOES. Blandford, Marquess Bowes, J. Broadley, H. Bruges, W. H. L. Elliot, hon. J. E. Mackinnon, W. A. TELLERS. Parker, J. Clause agreed to. The Attorney General objected to the "Think VOL. XLIV {i} upon to decide questions of a political nature. Besides, the courts at Westminster were already so overwhelmed with their own business that it was out of the question to impose any extraneous business on them. He hoped it would be part of the object of the right hon. Baronet the Member for Tamworth to provide a proper and effective court of appeal. Such an object had formed part of the plan of the hon. Member for Liskeard. He had waited with great anxiety to hear what the right hon. Baronet had to propose on this point, but he could not consent for a moment to the present proposition. Sir E. Sugden was inclined to support the clauses. The questions which would come before the judges would not be political questions,but essentially questions of property, which would very fitly come before the superior courts of law. He did not see,that the additional weight of business would materially inconvenience the judges, nor did he see, that their decisions would for a moment be regarded with suspicion. He was not himself aware of any pressure of business on the courts at Westminster which could be regarded as other than a were liable to be stigmatised for an incimerely temporary pressure. If the judges dental decision which might happen to be unpopular, how hard would be the case of those who should be appointed for the sole purpose of deciding appeals in those cases. The opinions of the latter would be in no degree respected, and they would be liable to be regarded as mere political partisans. If the hon. Gentleman pressed the clauses to a division, he should vote with him, but he should suggest to him to postpone them to a future state of the bill, when they might be more advantageously discussed. decisions of judges on political questions, Mr. Warburton had no respect for the particularly when he recollected how the rights and properties of corporations had been gradually undermined by decisions of the judges of the land. rights of the people and the privileges of He thought the the House would be greatly endangered by making the judges a court of appeal on questions of this kind. ber of the questions at present decided by Mr. Praed observed, that a great numthe courts of laws at Westminster were of a political character, yet the decisions of the judges in such cases were not regarded with suspicion. A great many new questions of a political character had been L སང Post-Office Bill 292 Lord. For the oil was as much the noble Lera 3 as is. He did not say this either 1 isparagement of the bill or of the noble Leru, cut a crder to io the noble Lord a common set of astice for the great "ains. Attention, and consideration which he Sercrt to Le ce had lestowed upon this subject; and zarnett Isauses. yet the lion, and gauant Oficer had said, with respect to a cui so brought forward Postbarten Grad The Lancetor ind so recommended. That it was 3 men. ae seecud raad sare:troduced Ly surprise. and for the leder Mother --xpressed is surprise.t urpose of effecting some mud. by passing brougn the focse L this period of the 18 ais sacuid tave Session. manmstry rolessing - that this vasetir the renewing of a bill The House wound uso recollect suca manated C is most to pass it through that Fouse. Thatteras refered a mother ace or net n was cot is quit that text au Leen so lang efore the House. ze corection of the hon. ཏུ ce pier comIMISteeng Member of der te cresent sys ay that the |