nakedness. The Government felt they were in an awkward situation; but they said to themselves, after some hours' debate, "This is a troublesome business! If we had only happened to have thought of the suggestion of the noble Duke which he has thrown out as a plank to save us, like many others which he has thrown out to us in a moment of difficulty, we might have avoided all this." The noble Viscount had appealed to the patriotism, and prudence, and love of justice of their Lordships, but he ought to have added, that he trusted to their Lordships' gullibility. For the noble Lord must have thought, that he was addressing the weakest, and feeblest, and most gullible of all gullible minds, if he hoped to persuade their Lordships not to vote for this motion without assigning any just reason or convincing proof that they ought to reject it. He hoped their Lordships would not abstain from voting for the motion, and thereby doing their utmost to undo all the mischief that had been done. The Duke of Wellington said, that after what the noble and learned Lord had said, it was impossible for him not to address a few words to their Lordships before they came to a vote on the motion of the noble and learned Lord, which was founded on the question of blockade. Lord Brougham: It really was not founded on the question of blockade. The noble Duke has mistaken my argument. I said, that even had there been a blockade, it would have been illegal; but there was no blockade. the policy of those instructions; and, except what he had heard in the debates of that House, he knew nothing of those instructions; but, as far as he understood, they never had been acted on, and he thought it most likely that they never would be. Under these circumstances, he confessed, that he felt induced to ask their Lordships not to call for the instructions which the noble Viscount had declared, would be detrimental and inconvenient to the public service to produce. Lord Brougham said, he was not at all surprised at this. He had somehow, from the first monent he had entered the House, thought the case was so strong and irresistible, and though the noble Viscount's speech proved it ten times. stronger, still he had some suspicion that the saviour of her Majesty's Government, the saviour of the present Ministry over and over again, the true friend, indeed, because the friend in need, he whose friendship rose in generosity exactly in proportion as their necessities pressed upon them, that he would once more be more or less encouraging, and more or less intelligible or unintelligible, and come down with his powerful assistance to defeat the motion, and undo the good which that motion would do. But let not the noble Duke go away laying the flattering unction to his soul that this treaty had not been acted on. It had been acted on to a certain extent; that had been bragged of, and the noble Lord at the Admiralty could not help letting it out. The Earl of Mansfield said, it had not The Duke of Wellington resumed been his intention to say any thing on the The noble Lord had stated, that the in- present occasion, but the noble Duke had structions were founded on the treaty, and made a recommendation to the House in he had said, that it was impossible that which he could not concur. He should they should not call for the papers to see not make any observations that he would whether the instructions were connected not have made in the presence of the with, or founded on, the treaty, and whe. noble Duke,-[the Duke of Wellington ther, in fact, we were bound by the treaty. had left the House]-who had been The noble Viscount had since stated, that obliged to retire on account of another he did not concur in that view of the engagement. He had heard with great case; that the noble Viscount considered pain, though not with surprise, the statethe view which he and his noble Friendments and recommendation of the noble near him had taken of the nature of the Duke; but grieved as he was to hear them, treaty, to be a correct view; and that the he did justice upon this, as he had done Government was not bound by the terms upon every other occasion, to the p of that treaty to issue such instructions of the noble Duke's motives. N as those adverted to. The noble Viscount did he believe in the purity of the had declared, that it would be detrimental Duke's motives, but paid all defer to the public service to produce those in-his judgment, the superiority of Now he did not approve of could never be sufficiently extolled o VISCOUNTS. preciated by those who had held frequent | Kinnoull Strangford Hood Exmouth Canning. BISHOPS. Gloucester Saltoun LORDS. Montagu Sandys Heytesbury Alvanley Brougham. List of the NoT-CONTENTS. Lord Ellenborough said, he should certainly vote with the noble Earl who had spoken last, in consequence of the speech of the noble Earl at the head of the Admiralty. It was clear to him that the noble Earl's understanding of this treaty. was incorrect, and that his instructions founded on that incorrect view, might lead us into a situation in which we should Cleveland not be able to avoid a war. Therefore, he considered it to be the duty of their Lordships to call for the production of the papers, in order to ascertain what were our obligations in reference to Spain, and how far any misinterpretation of the treaty might run us into danger. The Earl of Harewood said, his decision as to whether he should vote for the motion for the production of these papers was contingent upon this one circumstance. If any one of her Majesty's Government would get up in his place now, and state that those orders, or supposed orders, or interpretations of the treaty, as given by some of the noble Lords belonging to her Majesty's Government, would not only not be acted on, but that those orders would be withdrawn, in that case he should not vote for the motion. on the other hand, no such declaration was made, he should feel it his duty to vote for it. DUKES. Argyle MARQUESSES. Lansdowne EARLS. Minto Effingham Carlisle If, Ducie Stourton Belhaven Lovat Gardner Vaux Petre Carew Howden Say and Sele BISHOPS. Durham CHARITABLE ESTATES ADMINISTRATION BILL.] Lord Portman moved the Order of the Day for the House going into Committee on the Charitable Estates Administration Bill. Lord Brougham objected to the motion, as the bill was only a part of a great measure relating to charities generally, which had been introduced by him at an early period of the Session. Lord Portman was willing to put off his motion, and to withdraw the bill, if their Lordships thought proper, till next Session; but, before doing so, he wished to have their Lordships' opinion on the subject. He could assure the noble and learned Lord, that he was doing a great wrong to the little charities of the country. The noble and learned Lord had brought in a bill on this subject, but no person had seen it, for the proof print of the bill was still in the hands of the noble and learned Lord, who had not yet returned it to the proper officer; and it was not fair, he contended, to lock up the administration of charitable estates in the hands of one noble and learned Lord, more particularly if that noble and learned Lord was unwilling to proceed with his measure. This was a case of a most particular nature, and in regard to which, some measure was absolutely necessary. There was a mass of small charities throughout the country, which could get no person to administer them; and why? Because, when the Municipal Corporations Bill was under consideration, the noble and learned Lord had contended for alterations being made in that bill, so as to admit of a general bill on the subject of charities being introduced, and the noble and learned Lord said, that that bill ought to be carried through the House along with the Corporations Bill. The Municipal Bill provided for the administration of those charities; but by the alterations which were made, the subject was left untouched, and no bill had been passed for administering the affairs of charities up to the present time. The object of the bill under consideration was, to provide for the proper administration of the affairs of small charities, and the noble and learned Lord objected to the bill because it was introduced by a layman; but he had followed the example of the noble and learned Lord, and had adopted the provisions of the noble and learned Lord's bill. He felt, that it was hazardous for him to undertake a measure of this description, but as the noble and learned Lord had not thought proper to proceed with his bill on the subject, he had felt it to be his duty to bring forward the present measure, which he would leave entirely in the hands of their Lordships. Lord Brougham was not, till that moment, aware that his bill had not been printed and distributed; but the bill was, in fact, the very same bill which had last year been before their Lordships. He could assure the noble Baron, that he felt no jealousy whatever as to his interference with this particular subject, and he should have been delighted if any person possessed of adequate power and discretion, had taken up the question. He did not consider, however, that taking a bit out of a most important measure, in order to meet a particular case, was the proper way of proceeding on a subject of so much consequence as the administration of the different charities throughout the country. The bill which he had introduced, was framed on the report of the learned cominissioners who had investigated the subject. It had been approved by them, and in fact almost the whole of its enactments, were prepared by them; and the only chance he had of carrying that measure, was by retaining in it the urgent part to which the bill of the noble Baron was directed. The present bill was very different from the first bill brought forward by the noble Baron, which went to make the guardians of the poor the trustees of those charities, and which contained a provision which empowered any two of those trustees to grant a receipt for any debts due to those charities. That bill containing such monstrous provisions the noble Lord had withdrawn; and this was the second bill which had been introduced, so that it was clear the matter had not undergone that full and mature consideration which the importance of the subject demanded. It was his intention to proceed with the bill which he had introduced, and his noble and learned Friend, who was not then in his place (Lord Denman, we understood), agreed with him, that it was not advisable to pass a partial measure on the subject. As to passing the bill at that advanced period of the Session, they might as soon expect to get a piece of the moon. If the noble Lord persisted in his motion, he reserved for himself the power of giving the bill all the resistance possible during its future stages. The Lord Chancellor said, that the object of the bill before the House was to remedy a very great evil which existed in regard to those charities. By the Municipal Bill, all the charities of the country were deprived of their trustees, and the consequence was, that they had to apply, as a temporary expedient, to the Court of Chancery for the appointment of new L trustees. Now, there were in the country, many charities which could not afford the expense of an application to the Court of Chancery, and the poor were in consequence deprived of that advantage which those charities were calculated to yield. This evil was very general; and it was absolutely necessary that some arrangement should be made to renew the trustees without the necessity of applying to the Court of Chancery. The only question was, whether it was advisable to apply the remedy proposed by the noble Baron; and if the bill of the noble Lord was likely to prevent the passing of a general measure on the subject, he would suggest to the noble Lord the propriety of withdrawing it, at least for the present. Lord Portman said, that his great anxiety had been, not so much to pass the bill as to get the noble and learned Lord to declare, whether he intended to proceed with the general measure which had been introduced by the noble and learned Lord; and as he understood the noble and learned Lord to express his intention of proceeding with that measure, his object was accomplished, and he should bow to the suggestion of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, and withdraw the bill which he had introduced. TITHES (IRELAND).] The Order of the day having been read for Committee on the Tithes (Ireland) Bill, of Mr. O'Connell said, that before the House should resolve itself into Committee upon this bill, he rose for the purpose moving an instruction to the Committee, which he considered to be an indispens able preliminary, and without which he saw no chance whatever of the successful working of the bill. He would not for a moment delude the House by the supposition that this bill was calculated to work well: on the contrary, he thought, that it would increase the existing amount of dissatisfaction and disturbance in Ireland, unless they agreed to the resolution which he was about to propose, and which he should most certainly feel it to be his duty to press to a division. He felt, that the House must listen with natural reluctance to a renewed discussion upon Irish affairs, a lengthened discussion having not long since taken place upon this particular subject; and he (Mr. O'Connell) would gladly omit any fresh allusion to those topics, if he were not impressed with the deepest sense of their importance. It was for the House to take into consideration the present state of Ireland, to examine how far the proposed remedy was applicable, and to see whether in the attempt to amend a mischief they did not positively increase the evil. At the present moment the affairs of Ireland were pregnant with the utmost danger. It was true that for the last three or four years a system of conciliation had been carried on by the Government of that country; that the policy of that Government had been that of vigilance in the detection, united to firmness in the sup Lord Brougham said, that if he had the assistance of the noble and learned Lord on the Woolsack, and of his noble and learned Friend who had left the House, he had no doubt of being able to carry his measure; and he was most anxious to proceed with as little delay as possible. He wished it, however, distinctly to be understood, that he was not to go on because of the proceeding of the noble Baron in reference to this subject, as it had al-pression, of crime, accompanied by a ways been his intention to proceed with the measure he had brought forward, and to proceed with it with as little delay as possible. Lord Portman withdrew his motion. HOUSE OF COMMONS, soothing and conciliatory spirit towards the mass of the people. For the first time in the lapse of centuries the people had become reconciled to the administration of an English Government. Great, however, as were the advantages of that novel system of policy, it had by no means cured the evil, the substantial evilwhich consisted in real unmitigated oppression, and in the deep-rooted conviction of the people that they were suffering under downright injustice. So long as the fact existed that nine-tenths of the places, for an Alteration of the laws regulating the Sale Irish population consisted of Roman of Beer.--By Captain GORDON, from the Shipowners and Catholics and Presbyterians, it was idle to Shipmasters of the port of Aberdeen, and by Sir C. think of forming any scheme for reconcilSTYLE, from Scarborough, against the Bill for the regu-ing them to pay for maintaining the re Tuesday, July 10, 1838. UTES.] Bill. Read a third time:-Vagrants Acts lation of Pilotage, turbances, of the most horrible crimes' with all their fearful consequences, including the punishment of the innocent for the guilty? Was the House prepared to inflict that mischief upon Ireland? He (Mr. O'Connell) would take the arrears as they stood; and he would ask of the House whether they should look for the payment of the arrear of 640,0007. Who were they that owed that arrear? Must not the answer be, that they were the most lenient and forbearing of the Protestant clergy in Ireland-men who preferred the peace of their neighbourhood to the chance-perhaps the certainty-of disturbing it by enforcing their claimswho chose the course of Christianlike meekness and forbearance in preference to violence and tumult? If there was any class of men who deserved in an especial manner the kind consideration of the House, it was this set of peacefully disposed Protestant clergy. It was not to be expected that these men should pay back that arrear without having recourse to those who were the original debtors; and, having been made the victims of their ow for ligion of the other tenth. It was undoubtedly true, that the resistance to tithes had of late assumed more of a passive than an active character; but no man could dispute the fact, that the opinion of the people of Ireland on the subject of tithes still remained unchanged. He devoutly believed it to be unchangeable. When he last addressed the House upon this subject he had spoken of ten anti-tithe meetings which were advertised as about to take place within a few succeeding days. Since that period no fewer than thirteen of these meetings had taken place. At each of those meetings from 50,000 to 150,000 of the people had assembled, and recorded their immutable hostility to tithes. A striking circumstance at all these multitudinous assemblies was, that they were neither characterised by disturbance, nor by the slightest violation of the peace; and the expression of their determination not to pay tithes was only rendered the more emphatic by this total absence of tumult. The resistance to tithes might, therefore, be fairly assumed to be now as great as ever. Government proposed this measure as a soother, as calculated to diminish the ex-bearance, to call upon them now for payisting mischief. It had intended to strike ment of this money was to make a conoff thirty per cent. of this burden, which tinuation of that forbearance impossible. was dwindled down, however, by a vote He could not conceive anything more misof that House to twenty-five per cent. It chievous, anything more likely to be produchad been said, forsooth, that this was not tive of serious consequences, than the idea a question of pounds, shillings, and pence. of applying for this 640,0001. to men, many But was it not made a question of pounds, of whom could ill afford to pay it. When shillings, and pence? A miserable con- this tithe million was first proposed, he test had been carried on upon this wretched had announced that they would never get remaining five per cent, and a paltry party it back, and he told them now that they triumph had been gained-640,000l. of would never recover it. Was not the the tithe million remained unpaid, and House aware of what had happened to arrears had accrued since that period. By the noble Lord, the Member for North their new system the landlords of Ireland Lancashire, who had lent 60,000l. or were to be made tithe proctors. Was this 70,000l. to be distributed among several a system calculated to promote peace and parishes? He had since tried every means that tranquillity in Ireland? Did they think to recover it, but found it impossible. To they were establishing friendly relations be sure, the sum of 12,000l. was recoverbetween the landlord and tenant by making ed, but at an expense of 29,000l. Did the landlord sue his tenant for tithes? they wish to make a similar experiment Why, it was self-evident that they would by way of conciliating Ireland? But in convert into hostility to the landlord, the order to enforce legal proceedings, the odium which had been hitherto directed assistance of a military force would, in exclusively against the clergy. The odium almost every case, be necessary. would now be shared by both, or rather any man dream of introducing horse, foot, the burden of it would be borne by the and artillery into Ireland for this purlandlord. He asked any man who knew pose? He implored the House to look Ireland whether that was a system cal- calmly and dispassionately at the quesculated to produce tranquillity there? tion; and if their object really were, to Whether, on the contrary, there could be produce quiet in Ireland, and to make any more fertile source of agrarian dis-the burthen of tithes as lightly felt as Did |