The chief clerk read as follows:

Ordered, That two of the managers on the part of the House be permitted to file their printed or written arguments before the adjournment of to-day, and that after an oral argument by one manager and the reply of one of the President's counsel, another of the President's counsel shall have the privilege of filing a written or making an oral address, to be followed by the closing speech of one of the President's counsel and the final reply of a manager under the existing rule.

Mr. CORBETT. Mr. President, I move to insert in place of the word "another" the word "two," so as to make it the same on the part of the President's counsel as on the part of the managers.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Clerk will read the order as it stands now, and as it will be if amended as proposed.

Mr. FOWLER. Mr. Chief Justice, the noise is so great in the hall that we .cannot hear.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. Conversation in the Senate chamber must be suspended.

Mr. FOWLER. Particularly in the galleries.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. Conversation in the Senate chamber must be suspended, including the galleries.

The CHIEF CLERK. It is proposed to strike out the word "another" before the words "of the President's counsel," and to insert "two;" so that the order will read :

Ordered, That two of the managers on the part of the House be permitted to file their printed or written arguments before the adjournment of to day, and that after an oral opening by a manager and the reply of one of the President's counsel, two of the President's counsel shall have the privilege of filing a written or of making an oral address, to be followed by the closing speech of one of the President's counsel and the final reply of a manager under the existing rule.

Mr. EVARTS. Mr. Chief Justice and Senators, if you will allow me to say one word on this question, as the rule now stands two of the President's counsel are permitted to make oral arguments. By the amendment, without the modification of inserting "two" instead of "another," we understand that three of the President's counsel will be enabled to make oral arguments to the Senate. That is as many as, under any circumstances, would wish or be able to do so.

Mr. Manager STEVENS. Mr. Chief Justice, this would embarrass the managers among themselves very much. Would it not do to say that "the managers and the counsel for the President may file written or printed arguments between this and the meeting of the court to-morrow?" That would disembarrass us of all our difficulties, and I cannot perceive its inconvenience.

Mr. BAYARD. Mr. Chief Justice, I move to lay the resolution on the table, and I ask for the yeas and nays.

Mr. NELSON rose.

Mr. BAYARD. I withdraw the motion.

Mr. FESSENDEN. Mr. President, I ask if the order was not adopted.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. It has not been.

Mr. FESSENDEN. I understood it to be adopted.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. It has not yet been adopted. An amendment was adopted, but the vote has not been taken on the order itself.

Mr. TRUMBULL. Mr. President, I should like to inquire what the question before the Senate is prior to the motion to lay on the table?

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The motion to lay on the table is withdrawn.

Mr. TRUMBULL. What is the motion pending?

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The motion pending is to strike out the word "another" and insert the word "two."

Mr. TRUMBULL. I would ask the unanimous consent of the Senate to appeal to the senator from Oregon to withdraw that amendment. The counsel do not ask it.

Mr. CORBETT. Mr. President, as the order is satisfactory to the President's counsel as it now stands without the amendment I withdraw the amendment. The CHIEF JUSTICE. The question is on adopting the order. The clerk will read it as it now stands.

The chief clerk read as follows:

Ordered, That two of the managers on the part of the House be permitted to file their printed or written arguments before the adjournment of to-day, and that after an oral opening by a manager and the reply of one of the President's counsel, another of the President's counsel shall have the privilege of filing a written or of making an oral address, to be followed by the closing speech of one of the President's counsel and the final reply by a manager under the existing rule.

Mr. CONNESS. I ask for the reading again of the first part of the order. The chief clerk read the order.

Mr. CONNESS. That, Mr. President, I desire to suggest

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The senator from California can speak by unanimous

consent.

Mr. CONNESS. I will not ask consent, nor speak. I move, at the instance of one of the managers, to amend so that it will read "before to-morrow noon,' that that length of time be given to file either written or printed arguments, as they are not ready to-day.

Mr. GRIMES. How can the other side reply to-morrow?

Mr. HENDERSON. I desire to offer a substitute.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The first question is on the amendment proposed by the senator from California, Mr. Conness.]

The amendment was agreed to.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The question now is on the substitute proposed by the senator from Missouri, [Mr. Henderson.] The clerk will read it.

The chief clerk read as follows:

Strike out all after the word " ordered," in the original proposition, and insert: That all the managers not delivering oral arguments may be permitted to file written arguments at any time before the 24th instant, and the counsel for the President not making oral arguments may file written arguments at any time before Tuesday, the 28th instant.

Mr. HENDERSON called for the yeas and nays on the amendment, and they were ordered.

Mr. THAYER. I move to lay the whole subject on the table.

Mr. SPRAGUE called for the yeas and nays, and they were ordered; and being taken, resulted-yeas, 13; nays, 37; as follows:

YEAS-Messrs. Buckalew, Conkling, Dixon, Doolittle, Edmunds, Grimes, Henderson, McCreery, Norton, Ross, Sprague, Thayer, and Williams-13.

NAYS-Messrs. Anthony, Cameron, Cattell, Chandler, Conness, Corbett, Cragin, Davis, Drake, Ferry, Fessenden, Fowler, Frelinghuysen, Harlan, Hendricks, Howard, Howe, Johnson, Morgan, Morrill of Maine, Morrill of Vermont, Morton, Patterson of New Hampshire, Patterson of Tennessee, Pomeroy, Ramsey, Saulsbury, Sherman, Stewart, Sumner, Tipton, Trumbull, Van Winkle, Vickers, Willey, Wilson, and Yates-37.

NOT VOTING-Messrs. Bayard, Cole, Nye, and Wade-4.

So the motion to lay on the table was not agreed to.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The question is on the amendment proposed by the senator from Missouri to strike out all after the word " ordered," "and to insert what will be read by the Secretary.

"Mr. HENDERSON. Before it is read I desire to modify it so as to make it read "Monday, the 27th," instead of "Tuesday, the 28th."

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Secretary will read the amendment, as modified. The chief clerk read as follows:

Strike out all after the word "ordered," and insert:

That all the managers not delivering oral arguments may be permitted to file written arguments at any time before the 24th instant, and the counsel for the President not making oral arguments may file written arguments at any time before Monday, the 27th instant.

Mr. HENDERSON. I will say "before 11 o'clock on Monday, the 27th instant," so that they will be in at the time of meeting.

Mr. DOOLITTLE. Mr. Chief Justice, I desire to inquire of the Chief Justice whether under that rule all the managers would not be permitted to deliver oral arguments?

Mr. HENDERSON. It does not change the present rule.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Secretary will read the order proposed.

Mr. EVARTS. Mr. Chief Justice and Senators, as we understand the order now proposed, it would not enlarge the privilege of the President's counsel in addressing the court. Any liberality that should be shown by the Senate, so far as it could be availed of by the President's counsel, under the peculiar circumstances in which they are placed, would probably need to include an opportunity on their part to make oral addresses.

Mr. NELSON. Mr. Chief Justice and Senators, I have felt, and still feel, an almost_irresistible repugnance to saying anything to the Senate upon this subject. In the first place, in the view which I entertained of the Constitution and laws of our country, I regard it as a matter of right in the President of the United States to appear by counsel. I suppose, following the analogies of courts of justice, that the Senate, sitting as a court, have the right to regulate the number of counsel, and to confine it within reasonable limits. Inasmuch as the Senate had indicated, by a rule which was adopted before the commencement of the trial, the number of persons who were to address the Senate in the progress of the trial, I felt reluctant to ask that any alteration of that rule should be made in behalf of the President's counsel, for the very simple reason that it has never been to me a source of satisfaction to attempt to address an unwilling audience, and much less would it be a source of gratification for me to attempt to address the Senate when they had indicated by a rule that they were unwilling to hear further argument. On a former occasion I stated to the Senate that, intending on our part faithfully to adhere to the rule which you had prescribed for the conduct and management of the trial, two of the President's counsel had determined not to address the Senate; that three others of the President's counsel had assumed, with our consent, the management and direction of the case, and that in our arrangement it was left to them to make the argument before the Senate. As an application was made on the side of the managers to enlarge the number, I thought that it would not be improper on our part to ask to be permitted to appear for the cause and to argue it. Since I made a few brief observations to the Senate the other day, Mr. Stanbery, upon whom we relied to make the leading argument in behalf of the President, has been confined by sickness. It is uncertain whether he will be able to address the Senate at all; the probabilities at present are that he will not; and even if he should make the effort, the chances are that he will be unable to make that argument to the Senate which he had intended to make.

Under these circumstances, I desire to say to the Senate that I would like to be permitted to address the Senate in behalf of the President. Indeed, I desire that the rule shall be so enlarged as to give all the President's counsel the privilege of addressing the Senate, either orally or in writing, as we may find convenient to do. I have stated that, owing to the circumstances indicated, we have not prepared written arguments; and it is too late now for the two counsel who had not intended to address the Senate to make such preparation; but in the progress of the case I have made such notes and memoranda that I think I could argue the case before you; and I feel constrained by a sense of duty to ask the Senate, under these circumstances, to allow the whole of the counsel to make addresses.

I beg leave to assure you, senators, that in doing this I am not animated, as I trust, by a spirit of idle vanity, and by the desire to make an address in a great cause like this. I have lived long enough in the world to know that sometimes we can make more by our silence than by an effort to make a public address. I am satisfied from my experience that great risks attend such an

<

effort, especially when we attempt to address the Senate or any other assembly extemporaneously; and were I to consult my own feelings and inclinations, I would not make this request; but, under the peculiar circumstances by which we are surrounded, if the Senate are willing to enlarge the rule, I choose to take the risk and to take my chances of endeavoring to argue the case before you, and I feel, senators, that, under existing circumstances, this is not an unreasonable request.

I may say, although I am not expressly authorized to do so, that I am satisfied the President desires that his cause shall be argued by the two additional counsel whom he has provided in the case, besides the three counsel who were heretofore selected for that purpose; and I trust you will not deny us this right. I trust that you will feel at liberty to extend it to all the counsel in the case. If we choose to avail ourselves of it we will do so. I have no sort of objection, so far as I am concerned, that the same right shall be extended to all or to more than an equal number of the managers on the other side. I trust that the resolution will be so shaped as to embrace all the counsel who are engaged in the cause in behalf of the President. I do not know that under these circumstances I shall be able to interest the Senate at all. But it is a case of great importance. On the trial of Judge Chase, six of the managers were permitted to address the Senate, and five of the counsel for the defendant were permitted to address the Senate; and in a great case like this, one of such momentous magnitude, a case in which the whole country is interested, is it asking, senators, too much at your hands, that you will enable us to present his case in the best manner that we may be able to do under the circumstances by which we are surrounded?

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The question is on the amendment proposed by the senator from Missouri, (Mr. Henderson.) The Secretary will read the original proposition again, and also the amendment.

The CHIEF CLERK. The original order is as follows:

Ordered, That two of the managers on the part of the House be permitted to file their printed or written arguments on or before 11 o'clock to-morrow, and that after an oral opening by a manager and the reply of one of the President's counsel, another of the President's counsel shall have the privilege of fiilng a written or making an oral address, to be followed by the closing speech of one of the President's counsel and the final reply of a manager under the existing rule.

The amendment of the senator from Missouri is to strike out all after the word" ordered" and insert:

That all the managers not delivering oral arguments may be permitted to file written arguments at any time before the 24th instant, and the counsel for the President not making oral arguments may file written arguments at any time before 11 o'clock of Monday, the 27th instant.

Mr. HOWARD. Mr. President, I rise to make an inquiry, whether the proper construction of the amendment offered by the honorable senator from Missouri does not open the door and repeal the twenty-first rule; in short, whether it does not allow all the counsel on the part of the accused and all the managers who may see fit to make oral arguments in the final summing up?

Mr. CONNESS. To make that

Mr. EDMUNDS. I object to debate.

Mr. CONNESS. To make that entirely clear, I move to insert the words "in accordance with the twenty-first rule."

The CHIEF JUSTICE. "Subject to the twenty-first rule."

Mr. CONNESS. Yes, "subject to the twenty-first rule."

Mr. HENDERSON. I accept the modification. That is what it means now.
The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Secretary will read the substitute as modified.
The chief clerk read as follows:

Ordered, That all the managers not delivering oral arguments may be permitted to file written arguments at any time before the 24th instant, and the counsel for the President not making oral arguments may file written arguments at any time after 11 o'clock of Monday, the 27th instant, subject, however, to the twenty-first rule.

Mr. CONNESS. I wish to insert that language at the beginning after the word "that," so that it will read "that, subject to the twenty-first rule" so and so shall be done.

Mr. HENDERSON. I suggest, after the words "oral arguments," to insert, "except the two managers delivering oral arguments under the twenty-first rule." The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chief Justice will suggest to the senator from Missouri that his object will be attained by accepting the amendment proposed by the senator from California, inserting the words "subject to the twenty-first rule." Mr. CONNESS. I ask if it was my privilege to offer it as an amendment. I do not know why it was not accepted.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The Chief Justice understood it to be accepted.
Mr. CONNESS. I suggest to the Secretary to write it.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. It was written and was accepted, as the Chief Justice understood, and then after it was accepted the senator from Missouri proceeded still further to modify his amendment.

Mr. CONNESS. I ask the Secretary to read it again as I moved it.
The chief clerk read as follows:

Ordered, That, subject to the twenty-first rule, all the managers not delivering oral arguments may be permitted to file written arguments at any time before the 24th instant, and the counsel for the President not making oral arguments may file written arguments at any time before 11 o'clock of Monday, the 27th instant.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The senator from California moves to amend the amendment proposed by the senator from Missouri by inserting after the word "that" the words "subject to the twenty-first rule."

The amendment to the amendment was agreed to.

Mr. TRUMBULL. Is an amendment still in order?
The CHIEF JUSTICE. It is.

Mr. TRUMBULL. I move to strike out all after the word "that" and insert what I send to the Chair.

The CHIEF CLERK. It is proposed to amend the amendment by striking out all after the word "that" and inserting:

As many of the managers and of the counsel for the President as desire to do so be permitted to file arguments or to address the Senate orally.

Mr. EDMUNDS, Mr. STEWART, and others called for the yeas and nays, and they were ordered.

Mr. CORBETT. I call for the reading again.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The clerk will report the order, the amendment pro-/ posed, and the proposed amendment to the amendment.

The CHIEF CLERK. The order originally proposed is as follows:

Ordered, That two of the managers on the part of the House be permitted to file their printed or written arguments on or before 11 o'clock to-morrow; and that after an oral opening by a manager and the reply of one of the President's counsel, another of the President's counsel shall have the privilege of filing a written or of making an oral address, to be followed by the closing speech of one of the President's counsel and the final reply of a manager under the existing rule.

The senator from Missouri (Mr. Henderson) proposes to amend that by striking out all after the word "Ordered " and inserting:

That, subject to the twenty-first rule, all the managers not delivering oral arguments may be permitted to file written arguments at any time before the 24th instant, and the counsel for the President not making oral arguments may file written arguments at any time before 11 o'clock of Monday, the 27th instant.

The senator from Illinois (Mr. Trumbull) proposes to amend the amendment by striking out all after the word "that" and inserting :

As many of the managers and of the counsel for the President as desire to do so be permitted to file arguments or to address the Senate orally.

The CHIEF JUSTICE. The question is on the amendment proposed by the senator from Illinois to the amendment of the senator from Missouri.