for the acknowledgment of those interested in the Protestant Missions, and taking a part in them, to the fact of their being many converts in India, and their amounting to as many as 20, 30, or 40,000 in one single town. This assuredly is a very strong contrast to the acknowledgments of some writers which I laid before you at our last meeting; and they will amply be confirmed just now.

Having thus produced the authorities of these persons in favour of the very large number of Catholics, I have now a right to make use of our own returns, which, while they coincide as to the great number, give us something like more positive statements. Abbé Dubois, the same Missionary whom I mentioned, and who was thirty years in India, and who has always been represented, and really is, as rather more inclined to depreciate than to augment the number of Catholic converts, for it is well known he has himself a particular theory upon this subject which he has always endeavoured to maintain, in his examination before the House of Commons says, that the native Catholic converts in Asia may be estimated at 1,200,000, and that of these he supposes one half, or 600,000, may be considered to be in the Peninsula of India. This part of the Catholic church is governed in two different ways, There are four bishoprics established there, having the following respective numbers; for example, according to his estimate along the coast from Goa to Cape Comorin, including Travancore, there are 330,000; in Madura 120,000; and he places the other 160,000 in the Island of Ceylon, of which I shall have to speak in more detail just now.

Now to show, according to the reports sent by the Catholic bishops in private letters, that the work of conversion does go on, I will read one or two extracts which I have made. In 1825, a Missionary who arrived and was immediately sent to the interior of the provinces after some study of the language, in a few months commenced his course of preaching, and, according to his return, in the space of a year and a half he had baptized sixty-three natives and adults. Another Missionary at Darmaboory had admitted two hundred adults to baptism. "These Missions in the interior," says another, "are exceedingly interesting, not only on account of the fervour of the Christians, but also on account of the success which the apostolic men obtained among the natives." One of them has admitted within these few days eighteen numerous families to the font of baptism. Another Missionary also writes, that he has been blessed with considerable success; that he has had to add to his ordinary labours much extraordinary fatigue; but that it is a sweet and pleasant trouble, inasmuch as he received twenty-two adults, Soodras, into the Christian religion; and he says, Every convert almost that I have received, belongs to a superior caste."

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This brings me therefore to this remark of Bishop Heber upon the character of the Catholic converts. Now, according to him, they are

of inferior caste; it is their bad conduct and character which has given rise to a law which I shall explain just now; and the Protestants in consequence are hurt through this conduct of the Catholics. The law I allude to is, that no person becoming a convert to the Christian religion can, or at least could, two or three years ago, hold any office under the East India Company, or under Government. This law, as Bishop Heber himself says, did not exist during the reign of the native princes; consequently, they who were themselves Hindoos, who were enemies to the Christian religion, were so satisfied with the conduct of the Christians, that is, the Catholics, for during their dominion there were certainly no others, that they were allowed to hold any post, or office, whatever. Indeed, the Abbé Dubois, indignantly repelling this observation, says, "They often became the most distinguished persons in the court, both of the Mohammedan and Hindoo princes, and there was not the slightest check upon the free exercise of their religion." There is consequently a contradiction in telling us that the Catholics are all of the lowest caste, and that a law has been made in consequence of their bad conduct, which prevents them holding any office under government. The fact is, this is a law made since the English took possession of the country, and consequently it is applicable to those converts that were made after this time. This is one of the regulations that the Madras Government made in 1816:-" The Zillah Judges shall recommend to the provincial Courts the persons whom they may deem fit for the office of district moonsif, but no person shall be authorized to officiate as district moonsif, without the previous sanction of the provincial Court, unless he be of the Hindoo or Mohammedan persuasion." So that the British Government requires men to be of the Hindoo or Mohammedan religion, as a qualification to hold office in that country. Again, he says, "There were about twenty people present, one of them a corporal, whom, in consequence of his embracing Christianity, government very absurdly, not to say wickedly, disgraced by removing from his regiment, though they still allow him his pay." Now the very fact of allowing a man his pay, after he became a Christian, and yet putting him out of office, shows it is not the jealousy of the natives which led to the act, because that jealousy would be much more excited by seeing a person receive a pension without any work to do, than by seeing him continued in his situation. Again, he says, "I had an interesting visit from a fine grey-headed old man, who said he had been converted by Mr. Corrie to Christianity, when at Agra; and that his name was Noor Musseih. He came, among other things, to beg me to speak to the Collector and Mr. Halhed, that he might not be turned out of a small office which he held, and which he said he was in danger of losing, on account of his Christianity." Mr. Lushington, in his examination before a Committee of the House of Commons, states, that "It is a fact, that a Hindoo on

becoming a Christian, becomes instantly an object of suspicion; and it is supposed that when any of the natives become Christians, they do it to gain their bread." Whether this be true or false it does not matter. I only relate it to show that it is not a law made against Catholics, for it is only made in one of the districts; and besides this it has only been made by the English in later times.

But now, as to the Catholics being of worse conduct, of less respectability than other persons in India, Bishop Heber in both cases says, "It is said," ‚”“it is alleged”—a form, I must say I can hardly consider becoming, because to speak in such broad sweeping condemnation of several hundred thousand persons, to say that they bear no moral character, and consequently that they are hardly worthy of the name of Christian-for him to say merely upon the ground "it it said," "it is alleged "—that they are so, is not I think very reconcilable with the high feeling at least of Christian charity; and I think that such insinuations brought without proofs, without grounds, ought not to be made.

Now, let us see what other Missionaries say. Martyn-and I quote him with pleasure, because it is impossible to read his work, without being satisfied that he was a man of the simplest mind, and of the most devotional character; this is the way in which he speaks of the Catholics, and while it shows that there are plenty of them, and that of native Catholics too, it states at the same time his opinion of them. "Certainly," he says, "there is infinitely better discipline in the Romish Church than in ours, and if ever I were to be the pastor of native Christians," which till then he acknowledges he was not, "I should endeavour to govern with equal strictness." So that Martyn produces the conduct of Catholic congregations, pastors and people, as the model he intended to follow if he were placed in a similar condition. Does that show that he considered them as of an inferior character to those whom he hoped to convert ? He would not produce as models individuals who fell under the ordinary standard of good character.

But again, he speaks of a very interesting visit which he paid to a Catholic Missionary at his place of worship, at his church in that country, and this is the way he expresses himself" He read me some passages from the Hindostanee Gospels, which I was surprised to find were so well done"-a translation he himself had made. "I begged him to go on with the epistles. He had translated also the Missal, equally well done. He showed me the four gospels in Persian, very poorly done. I rejoiced unfeignedly at seeing so much done, though he followeth not with us. The Lord bless his labours." In all this he is speaking of persons who are described as in a condition unworthy of the name of Christian. But again, as an example merely to show the feelings of the natives regarding Catholics, even those who are not Catholics themselves. This is

"I mentioned to you that I had Sunday, on the delusions of the

what he writes on another occasion. spoken very plainly to the women last Papists: yesterday only seven came. I ascribed it to what I had said; but to-day Sabat tells me that they pour contempt upon it all. He may spare his sarcastic remarks, as I suppose, that after another Sunday, none at all will come.' So that he had a sufficient congregation, and the moment that he addressed any thing against the Catholic religion, the congregation instantly left him.

Another high authority regarding the character of the Catholics in India, is that of Dr. Buchanan. In his Memoir, which may justly be said to have led to the establishment of bishoprics connected with the Church of England in that country. "The Romish church," he says, “in India, is coeval with the Spanish and Portuguese in the East, and though both empires are now in ruins, the church remains. Sacred property has been respected in the different revolutions; for it is agreeable to Asiatic principle to reverence religious institutions. The revenues are in general small, as is the case in Roman Catholic countries at home; but the priests live every where in respectable or decent eircumstances. Divine service is regularly performed, and the churches generally are well attended: ecclesiastical discipline is preserved; the canonical European ceremonies are retained, and the benefactions of the people are liberal. It has been observed that the Roman Catholics in India yield less to the luxury of the country, and suffer less from the climate than the English; owing, it may be supposed, to their youth being surrounded by the same religious establishments they had at home, and to their being subject to the observation and counsel of religious characters, whom they are taught to reverence. Besides the regular churches, there are numerous Romish Missions established throughout Asia. But the zeal of conversion has not been much known during the last century; "that is during half a century, as I shall show-"the Missionaries are now generally stationary, respected by the natives for their learning and medical knowledge, and, in general, for their pure manners; they ensure to themselves a comfortable living, and are enabled to show hospitality to strangers. On a general view of the Roman Catholic Church, we must certainly acknowledge, that besides its principal design in preserving the faith of its own members, it possesses a civilizing influence in Asia; and that, notwithstanding its constitutional asperity, intolerant and repulsive compared with the general principles of the Protestant religion, it has dispelled much of the darkness of paganism."

Here, then, we have a two-fold acknowledgment; in the first place, of the superior character of the Catholic clergy in India, the regularity of their flocks, and the respect which they retain ; and, at the same time, to their having been effectual in the work of dispelling the errors of Paganism.

So far, I think, is sufficient, regarding the character of the Catholics, and regarding their number. It appears, therefore, that at present, by comparing the acknowledgments which we have drawn from the experience of the Missicnaries with the official returns given to the British parliament, and with the accounts of Catholic Missionaries, whose statements no one has ever called in question, that we have a native church consisting of about 600,000 individuals, or considerably above half a a million, and these taken too, as I have said, from the estimate of persons rather inclined to depress than to exaggerate the accounts.

Perhaps it may be a matter of interest, simply to mention that one very large portion of the Catholics on the Coast of Malabar, particularly, consist of Syrian Christians; that is to say, when the Portuguese first arrived in India, they found congregations of Syrian Christians, who knew nothing whatever of any Christian community on earth except one under a Nestorian patriarch at Mosul; and we have a letter they wrote to him, giving a description of the bishop, and of the individuals anded on the coast, and expressed satisfaction in finding men who agreed with them so far in doctrine on every point. Upon the representations made to them by the Catholics, and upon coming to a conference with them, the consequence was, that one half of these-perhaps there may be 20 or 30 or even 50,000-became Catholics, and have remained so ever since, having their own bishop and their own priests-who have the liturgy in their own language-in Syriac, which to them now is perfectly a dead language, and, consequently, they form a body there much the same as the united Greeks in Greece, or the united Syrians in Palestine.

Now, another singular mistake, I suppose, I wish to call it so, is that of a Missionary, who says, "It must be a fact consoling to know that there are at this moment 60,000 Protestant Christians on the Coast of Malabar." Now these 60,000 Christians, as appears from his own showing, are these Nestorian Christians, who have not joined the Catholic church, though they are men who believe in transubstantiation, the real presence, practice confession, acknowledge seven sacraments, and, in fact, believe every thing that Catholics do, with the exception of the supremacy of the Holy See, and hold the doctrine of the existence of only one person in Christ. Persons who agree with us on all but these two points, on one of which they differ from the Protestant confession of faith, are considered Protestant Christians, and are mentioned in one report as being such. No attempt has succeeded in gaining one of them over, I believe, from their original belief.

But a remark is made in a report that it is not wonderful at all that that the Catholic Church should have stood so well in India; for this reason, that we had one establishment sustained and provided for by the Spaniards and Portuguese; and that, consequently, as soon as their dominion passed away, the church stood on the basis which had been