so little spirit could hardly be a very de- | of pounds, shillings, and pence-that would sirable husband for the Princess Royal. be a very good bargain for the country. What would Her Majesty and the people If it were possible to propose such an of this country say, if His Royal Highness Amendment on the Motion of his hon. and the Prince Consort derived an annuity learned Friend, he should be disposed to from the taxes of Saxe Coburg? They do so. would be ashamed of it, and would not permit it for one moment. That the people of England should be taxed to maintain a foreign Queen, and especially the Queen of a high power like Prussia, would be most degrading to that country; and so far from this being a "nibbling" proposition, it was one which, if carried, would conduce greatly to the respect in which Her Majesty and her august family were held. Taxes for such objects as that proposed by the Bill were the most likely of all other things to bring the Royal Family into a position with respect to the people very different from that which they now occupied. He hoped, although he knew there was not much ground for hoping, that the hon. and learned Gentleman would carry this Motion. He was quite convinced that it would be most acceptable to the country at large. The House had acted very liberally in granting this annuity, as well as the dowry of £40,000; and it would be unjust to the people of England, and a violation of every principle, if she were to continue to receive an annuity of £8,000 after she had become Queen of Prussia.

MR. WALTER thought that the very circumstance of this discussion showed how much more sensible the arrangement that was suggested by his hon. and learned Friend the Member for Sheffield would have been (had it been proposed in a more definite and specific form) than the scheme which had been submitted by the Government. It must be confessed that it would be somewhat unbecoming in the Princess Royal to continue to be a pensioner on the people of England when she became Queen of Prussia. At the same time he could not support the proposition of his hon. and learned Friend the Member for Dundalk, unless it underwent some alteration. He should like to suggest, by way of compromise, that the annuity should cease altogether when the Princess Royal became Queen of Prussia; but that a corresponding increase should be made in the annuity for the limited period antecedent to that event that it should be £12,000 instead of £8,000, and should cease absolutely when the Princess Royal became Queen of Prussia. He believed that--as a matter

MR. DISRAELI: Every stage of this measure, and every form in which these propositions have come before us, has only the more and more convinced me of the folly and extreme injustice of placing the Crown in the position of making these applications to the House of Commons. It is necessary to remind the House over and over again, that the Crown has possession of an estate perfectly adequate to furnish all that is required for the convenience, comforts, and happiness of the Queen and the Royal Family, and for establishing every branch of that family, however numerous, in a manner worthy of the Royal Family of England without coming down to Parliament for any grant whatever. It appears, by evidence which any hon. Gentleman may refer to, that the Crown Estate brings into our Exchequer £260,000 per annum. With an estate to that amount surely the Crown would be in a position to supply all that is necessary for the comfort and convenience of the Crown, and for establishing every branch of the Royal Family. In all that is necessary for the wise pageantry connected with the Crown the country is as much and more interested than the Crown itself. know very well that under ordinary cir cumstances that pageantry is not had recourse to, but on all occasions of public ceremonials in which the august individual who is the representative of our national institutions performs public duties that pageantry is required, and the House of Commons is bound to furnish the expenditure which it entails, and an annual Vote of a certain amount for that purpose would never be refused. Unfortunately, on the accession of Her Majesty to the Throne, and by the advice of those who believed, no doubt, that they were giving sound advice to the Crown, Her Majesty entered into this compact which we now call the Civil List. But let the House consider under what circumstances a youthful Sovereign is called upon to enter into an arrangement of that kind. What experience of the world could a youthful Sovereign have as to the feelings of a community which she might be called upon to govern? If it had not been for the compact then entered into it would not have

We

dangered.

This country is remarkable man and I, looking at the figures involved in the case, have come to different conclusions. I know this is an argument which my late lamented Friend, Sir Robert Inglis, was ever fond of using in this House; but it was founded upon an entire misapprehension of the charges originally attaching to the Royal revenue. No doubt, if you take the Crown's hereditary revenue, and say that that should be employed only for the personal advantage and pleasure of the Sovereign for the time being, it may be true that the Civil List is not equal to the amount which the Crown would then receive. But what are the facts? In old times the Crown's hereditary revenue was bound to support many charges now considered of a public nature. Thus, in former times, the diplomatic and many other services were paid for from the hereditary revenues of the Crown; and

for its accumulated capital and immense wealth, and we might as well be jealous of some of our great peers who have territorial incomes of that character and amount, and suppose that our liberties were endangered by them, and every one of them would turn out to be an Earl of Warwick. But I suppose nobody imagines any danger is likely to arise to our liberties because the Duke of Bedford or the Marquess of Westminster draw a large income from their landed estates. We therefore should not be jealous if the Sovereign of this country, possessing real property, should exercise the duties of a propietor. On the contrary, we should rather be glad if the Sovereign were placed in that position and saved from the humiliation of making appeals of this kind. When Her Majesty is called upon to fulfil the most agreeable of duties-namely, the establish- if, as to my surprize has been suggested ing in an honourable manner a member of her family, we find her position entirely misrepresented by its being said that she is exacting something from the taxes of Her people. I think the time is come when we ought gravely to consider whether this system should not be put an end to, because we can all anticipate that other appeals may be made to us, and because the same objection, utterly false and fallacious, will again be urged in order to poison the feelings of the people of this country.

SIR FRANCIS BARING: Sir, I regret that the right hon. Gentleman opposite has introduced a new question into the discussion, and entered upon matters which would have been better considered and discussed upon some more opportune occasion. As to the result at which the right hon. Gentleman arrives, I entirely concur with him. I may say for myself that I am not usually anything but a lover of economy, but I should deeply regret if to the grant of this House were attached a condition which would, I think, bear the character of extreme shabbiness. When, however, the right hon. Gentleman opposite bases this grant, not upon the attachment we bear to the Sovereign, or upon the duty which, as it seems to me, is imposed upon us of providing for the Royal Family, but upon the ground that the Crown has made a bad bargain with the country, all I can say is, that in the first place I sincerely regret that such a point should have been started, and in the next place I must frankly state that the right hon. Gentle.

by the right hon. Gentleman, the Crown
were to re-enter upon its hereditary reve-
nue, I am afraid Her Majesty would find
that a large part of the expenditure now
borne by the public would attach to that
revenue, and very much reduce its amount.
I will not go further into the question, for
I am sorry it has been raised, than to say
that, as regards the possibility of binding
the hereditary revenue for the payment of
an annuity to the Princess Royal, I very
much doubt whether the Crown, in the full
plenitude of its enjoyment of this revenue,
would allow such a charge to be made;
I very much doubt whether it would not be
found necessary to come to Parliament,
even supposing the Crown still possessed
its hereditary revenue.
further into a question which I regret
should have been raised. I cordially con-
cur with the right hon. Gentleman in voting
against this Motion, and I hope my hon.
Friend who brings it forward will find very
few to support him.

But I will not go

MR. ROEBUCK: After the political lecture read to us by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Buckinghamshire (Mr. Disraeli), I was in hopes that, when the other right hon. Gentleman got up to answer him, he would have taken notice of the inaccuracy of his facts. There is another right hon. Gentleman here who was a member of the Administration which actually made the settlement which has been referred to. And first, let me remind the Committee that this settlement was not made with a youthful Sovereign. It was first made in 1830, when William

66

IV. succeeded to the throne of England, I make the proposal. It was so stated by and during the Premiership of Lord Grey. the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of The hereditary revenue of the Crown was the Exchequer when he proposed the anon that occasion said to be given up. That nuity to her Royal Highness, and therewas not so; for a portion of it was re- fore I can disregard the sort of taunt to tained. The bargain made by the Crown which I have been subjected. But let us not was one advantageous to it, and not to the now stickle at the terms of this grant. We people. Let us look at what occurred be- are about to provide for her Royal Highfore that time. George II. and George ness, and I am quite sure that the people III. made no such "concession" to their of England will be glad to see her well people. But they both came to Parliament and handsomely provided for. I think the for a provision for their daughters, so that, grant which I proposed was more advantaeven by retaining this hereditary revenue geous to the Princess Royal than the one in the hands of the Crown, you don't pro- adopted; but, as the Ministerial plan has tect Parliament against these applications. been adopted, let us not haggle over the Now, this is a very important matter. bargain, and seek to alter its terms. Let When the Princess Royal of that day was us at once say, like a great people as we married, George III. came to this House are, or as we ought to be, We will not for a portion for his daughter; and I can- quarrel about a small sum. Our great object not sympathize with the right hon. Gentle- is to make the lady happy." That she may man who thinks that any indignity results be happy is my fervent prayer, and I would to the Sovereign in consequence of such entreat the hon. Gentleman, as I have been an application. The Sovereign, having entreated before, not to divide the Commitconfidence in the respect, the loyalty, and tee on such an occasion. The sense of the the affections of her people, comes to Par- House has been sufficiently expressed on liament and says, "I have now a daugh- this subject. It has determined to adopt ter going to be married-going forth into the plan of the Government. Let us not life-and I appeal to you, to my people, so interfere with that decision further, or try to provide for her as that she may be happy vainly to upset it; but let us appear to do herself, and in her condition reflect honour what we are about to do, gracefully as well upon the country from whence she comes. as generously. Sir, the people of England have ever answered such an appeal; they have ever answered it in such a way as to reflect no discredit on themselves, and no dishonour on the Sovereign. Sir, I have such respect for the Crown as to suppose that it so endears itself to the people by the benefits it confers upon them, that the return we thus make is a return of gratitude not degrading to it, and not dishonouring to us. I am not going to vote for the Motion made by the hon. and learned Gentleman (Mr. Bowyer). I myself, on a former occasion, proposed an alteration in the form of the grant, and I rather anticipated the proposal before us. It has been said and the statement has been repeated to-night-that I did wrong on that occasion; that had I proposed a round sum, I was likely to have had a majority of the House with me. The statement has been made to you, Sir, by the hon. Member for Nottingham (Mr. Walter), and it was made some days ago by a very important self-important no insinuations; I simply made a stateorgan of public instruction-The Times newspaper. Now, The Times newspaper and the hon. Gentleman are both in error. By the forms of this House I could not

MR. W. WILLIAMS said, the revenues of the Crown surrendered to the State did not amount to £300,000 a year, which had been given in exchange for a Civil List of £385,000 a year, as well as a considerable sum for the maintenance of the Royal palaces.

MR. DISRAELI: The right hon. Gentleman (Sir F. Baring) has totally misconceived what I stated. I did not talk of the ancient revenues of the Crown, which he candidly informed the Committee were greater than the Civil List. I spoke of the £260,000 per annum which the Chancellor of the Exchequer took credit for, under the head of "Crown Lands," in the budget of the spring, and I said that that was an estate which Her Majesty might be in possession of. As to the ancient possessions of the Crown referred to by the right hon. Gentleman, they are all abrogated. The hon. Memfor Lambeth speaks of an insinuation which I made. Now, Sir, I indulged in

ment. I never gave the amount proceed-
ing from the Crown estates when this
compact was entered into.
What I re-
ferred to was, the present revenue of the