1391 Joint-Stock Companies

{COMMONS} Act Amendment Bill.

1392

Bill read 2°, and committed for Monday

next.

the Comptroller General, even if the Bill ber for that town, who had addressed the should become law exactly as it now stood. House: nor was he disposed to give any Much has been said of the financial part arbitrary powers to the Government; but of the question, which was not necessarily the difficulty was, that some banks were involved in the measure before the House, well managed, and some less well manand whatever objection might be made to aged; some were large and some small, the management of savings-banks money and it was no easy matter to frame such would equally apply if this Bill was not a set of regulations as could be made proposed. He did not think it necessary applicable to all. If a set of regulations at that hour to follow the hon. Member were inserted in the schedule of the Bill through all the figures he had quoted. they would be beyond the power of alteraHe would only say that if this Bill became tion, and great difficulty and disadvantage law he would be prepared on a future oc- might arise from attempting to apply an casion to offer the fullest information on inflexible rule to the varying circumstances the subject that could be desired, and to of so many different savings banks. That submit the whole of the management of was the reason for not embodying those the savings-banks money to the investi- regulations in the Bill. He should wish gation of a Select Committee. He wished to see the power now held by the trustees to remark, however, that the chief part and managers of well-conducted savings of the deficiency which appeared in the banks exercised as it had hitherto been; accounts of savings banks had arisen from but he did not feel justified in proposing money being over credited to the banks any measure making the Public Revenue that was to say, it had arisen from the responsible for a large amount of deposits banks having received more money than without assuming such a control as would they had paid in, and not from the varia- prevent the placing of so great a portion tions of securities made by successive of the public income annually in serious Governments. He did not know how the jeopardy. With this explanation he trusthon. Gentleman arrived at the conclusioned that the House would read the Bill a that about £1,000,000 had been lost by second time. variations in the securities, but according to his (the Chancellor of the Exchequer's) calculations less than half the sum would be nearer the mark. He wished to advert to one point alluded to by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Oxfordshirenamely, the conditions on which a bank would be admitted to the benefits of this Bill, as these were now defined. He did not apprehend that any further definition would be necessary; but, with regard to the regulations contemplated by the second section, these related to a matter which represented the actual difficulties of this measure. The right hon. Gentleman asked, first, whether, if he had not matured such regulations, he was not proposing a measure blindly; and, in the second place, whether, if he had matured them, he was prepared to produce them to the House? Now he had not proceeded blindly, as he had prepared a set of regulations which had already been submitted to some of the most experienced actuaries and officers of savings banks. It was his wish in framing regulations to act on the advice of those who possessed the greatest experiNothing was further from his intention than to interfere with the management of well-conducted banks-such as that of Manchester. alluded to by the hon. Mem- day.

ence.

JOINT-STOCK COMPANIES ACT AMEND-
MENT BILL-COMMITTEE.
Order for Committee read.

MR. FORSTER was understood to appeal to the Vice President of the Board of Trade on behalf of a Bank and Company which he named.

MR. LOWE said, the case alluded to would be more properly provided for in a Bill which he should introduce with respect to Joint-Stock Banks. At the same time, he must say that the formation of the company in question was running a very considerable risk, because, although the promoters had obtained very eminent legal opinion, and although the registrar was quite justified, with that opinion, in registering the Company, yet if it should turn out that the opinion was after all wrong, the partics would find not only that they had not limited liability, but that their association was not a legal company at all. House in Committee.

Bill considered in Committee.
House resumed.

Bill reported. Recommitted for Thurs

it distinctly stated in the papers-that the Governor General himself, Lord Canning, largely subscribes to every society which has for its object the conversion of the natives. My Lords, the Governor General of India can do nothing in his individual capacity. He cannot separate himself from his public character as Governor General.

He is essentially the Government of the country. No one looks to anybody else. There may be others who think that they are of importance; but they are not. The only man looked to in India is the Governor General. It is not in India alone, but more particularly in India, that it is generally understood that if a man at the head of the Government earnestly desires anything, it is his intention to enforce his desire and to effect his purpose. I deem that fact of these subscriptions of Lord Canning, the Governor General of India, to societies having for their object the conversion of the natives,

When the 19th Regiment was disbanded | connected with missionary operations; and at Barrackpore there was, no doubt, a to my great astonishment-I can scarcely passage in a long official paper emanating believe it now to be true, though I saw from the Governor General in Council, and read to the soldiery, which was to the effect that no one could pretend that the Government had at any time endeavoured to interfere with the religion of the people; but I cannot find that any notification has been made, as it should have been, at the quarters of every regiment and throughout the country, of the determination of the Government to adhere to its ancient policy of respecting the feelings and prejudices of the natives. I see no trace of there having been any general notification to that effect. It has been left entirely to the officers at the different stations to make any such notification as they should think fit under the circumstances. When the regiment was disbanded at Barrackpore, General Hearsey addressed it in terms which it is impossible to surpass in reasoning or in eloquence; and he afterwards addressed the whole of the native infantry at that station, and I do not recollect ever to have read at any time or in any history, at-if it be true, to be one of the most dautributed to any general in command of an gerous things which could have happened army, or to any statesman who had to to the security of our government in India. administer the Government of an empire, We must maintain that government as we any oration more thoroughly reasoning, or have acquired it, by acting on the prinmore completely eloquent and convincing ciples of Ackbar; but we cannot maintain than the speech of General Hearsey ad- it by attempting to act on the principles of dressed to the army on that occasion. Aurungzeb. You may depend upon it And what should the course of the Gover- that if persons holding high office in nor General have been? Ought he not the Government of India, and, above all, with his own hand in three sentences to have at the head of the Government, are percommunicated to the whole country his mitted to act on this principle, and to cordial concurrence with everything which indulge their own personal feelings-I do General Hearsey had said, and should he not doubt but they may be acting from not have made his concurrence with that conscientious motives-for the purpose of speech as public as the speech itself was changing the religion of the people, you necessarily made throughout the country? will see the most bloody revolution which I am convinced that if the Governor has at any time occurred in India. The General had pursued that course we should English will be expelled from India: and, have heard no more of the incendiary fires expelled from that country, they will not at Umballa, nor of the open mutiny at leave behind them a dozen sincere conMeerut. But that course was not taken; verts to Christianity. The question which and although I absolve the Government of I wish to put to the noble Earl opposite is, India, as a Government, from any intention whether instructions have been sent or will to interfere with the religion of the na- forthwith be sent to India, directing the tives, I must say that there have been of different Governments to make known at late-and daily increasing of late-circum- every station of the army throughout the stances which were calculated to excite in country, that the Government will for the the minds of the natives great apprehen- future, as in times past, protect all its sion upon that subject. I saw in a news-native subjects in the undisturbed exercise paper which I read yesterday the names of their religion? of colonels, and of six or eight important persons in the civil administration of the (ry, high in office, mentioned as being

EARL GRANVILLE: My Lords, I have always been the first to express my admiration of the strong feeling of public

spirit by which the noble Earl is actuated, beginning of these mutinous proceedings. and of the sincerity with which he advo- I may mention-for it shows what is my cates anything which he conceives to be of noble Friend's opinion on these pointsadvantage to our Indian empire; but I do that the first time he exercised his veto think that he has acted on this occasion on a Bill of the Legislative Council was on somewhat without consideration, and that account of a clause inserted in the Billthe remarks which he has just made must it was in a Police Bill-which he conceived have a mischievous tendency in India. affected in some degree the religious feelCertainly, they can have no good result; ings of the natives. I am glad that my and I do think that there is considerable noble Friend has had this opportunity of inconvenience in bringing questions before publicly testifying his opinion of the imParliament based merely upon telegraphic portance of abstaining from all attempts to information. There is no doubt that this interfere with the religion of the natives. great application of science is attended I entirely concur in the eulogium which with this inconvenience-that it is impos- the noble Earl has pronounced on the sible to rely upon the exact truth of any speech of General Hearsey. That officer information which is forwarded merely by addressed the troops in their own language, telegraph. No information connected with I believe, in a most eloquent and forcible the statement made by the noble Earl manner, and with a degree of feeling which having reached the Government, except seems to have had a great effect on them. by telegraph, it would be unwise of me I know that Lord Canning had a great to say how far I believe a great deal of admiration for that speech. He has called that statement to be exaggerated. What the attention of the Home Government to astonished me was the attack made upon it, and to the merits of General Hearsey; the Governor General by the noble Earl and the charge of the noble Earl, therefore, in the remarks which he made-remarks on this point falls to the ground. My anin which I entirely concur-as to the sa- swer to the question with which the noble crifice of the really important interests of Earl concluded is, that the Government the country in what may be termed mis- think that Lord Canning has acted with guided attempts to proselytize the natives. admirable judgment in abstaining from I believe-although himself a sincerely re- making any such notification as that sugligious man-there is no man more likely gested by the noble Earl. Such a notifito act with judgment in every respect on cation, issued when the mutiny was threatthese points than Lord Canning. I do not ened, would have appeared to be some sort speak so much from my knowledge of the of acknowledgment that it was a change in noble Lord as from the public and private the policy of the Government, whereas it letters which I have had the advantage of ought to be as patent as possible that it is, reading on these very points. I do not and always has been, and therefore always know whether he has subscribed to any will continue to be, the policy of the Gomissionary society, or under what circum-vernment to afford the greatest possible stances such subscriptions may have been made; but I know that he has to deplore rumours which have been circulated of the most unfounded and ridiculous character, and which will gain some strength by the attack made upon him by a person of the eminence of the noble Earl. Amongst other reports it has been said that the Governor General left this country under a pledge to Lord Palmerston that he would do his best to convert the whole of the native population of India. I mention this just to show the character of the reports which were spread abroad on this point. As a personal friend of Lord Canning I rejoice that, from what I hear, the whole community of Calcutta has been struck with the firmness, judgment, and courage, which he has shown in dealing with the

protection to the natives in the exercise of their religious rights. The course taken by Lord Canning has been more judicious than that pointed out by the noble Earl. The Government approve his not having issued any such notification, and no instructions have been sent to India such as those suggested by the noble Earl.

THE EARL OF MALMESBURY said that, although a friend of Lord Canning's, he did not regret that this matter had been brought forward by his noble Friend (the Earl of Ellenborough). On the contrary, he thought that as the noble Earl opposite (Earl Granville) had told them that the most unjustifiable rumours were in circulation respecting the feelings and opinions held by the Governor General of India with regard to the religious condition of

ning in this matter should stand unimpeached until some specific facts were brought forward to which an answer or explanation could be given. One in his high position should hold himself aloof from any such associations as those which had been referred to. Indifference in such matters, in his public position, was one of the first duties of his Government, nor should he in any degree, or by any act of his, give countenance to such reports as seemed most unaccountably and mysteriously to have prevailed in India.

He

the natives of that country, they were impossible to overrate the importance of deeply indebted to his noble Friend (the this subject. It was of the utmost imEarl of Ellenborough) for having afforded portance that the conduct of Lord Canthe Government an opportunity of contradieting such rumours. The noble Earl opposite said we ought not to take for granted the truth of all the statements transmitted by the electric telegraph; but the rumours respecting the Governor Ge neral of India on this subject did not rest on such despatches only. He had seen it stated in letters from India that Lord Canning had subscribed to a missionary association having for its object the conversion of the Natives. Their Lordships were perfectly aware how religious a man Lord Canning was, and they also knew begged their Lordships to suspend their that he was a man of calm judgment and judgments till they had distinct informagreat caution. If, however, he had been tion as to what were the specific associaled by his conscientious and religious feel- tions and societies to which Lord Canning ings to join any association of the kind had subscribed. They would not be predescribed, he (the Earl of Malmesbury) pared to say that he should subscribe to would not hesitate to say that, considering nothing in India, or that the Government the position in which he stood, he had should define at once to what he should committed a very great error. The noble subscribe and to what he should not. But Earl did not exaggerate the effects likely this he had to say, from not one only, but to have been produced in India had the from repeated communications, both priGovernor General subscribed to such asso- vate and public, recently received from ciations; for those persons who were en- Lord Canning, that there was not a man gaged in conscientious and estimable exer- in England-not even the noble Earl himtions to convert the inhabitants of India self-who was more aware of the danger would scarcely be able to refrain from of countenance being given to such movegiving themselves strength and power and ments than he was. From day to day he importance by quoting his name in their had a full sense of the danger before his intercourse with the people, and the popu- eyes, and he showed the greatest anxiety lation of India might be tempted to iden- that it should not be possible for any one to tify Lord Canning with the missionaries deduce from his conduct the inference that themselves. Knowing, however, Lord he would be guilty of such a charge as the Canning's caution and judgment, he could noble Lord had brought forward. Having not believe that he had been guilty of so the strongest public and private friendship imprudent an act as to mix himself up for Lord Canning, he was yet prepared to personally with these associations; and, as state that if by any error or mistake of a friend of Lord Canning's, he could not judgment-which he did not believe, and regret that the noble Earl opposite had which he would not believe without proof had an opportunity of contradicting the rumours that were in circulation.

THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH wished to explain that having seen a statement with respect to Lord Canning, the Governor General of India, having subscribed to these societies—a statement so astonishing that he could not believe it he thought it right at once to bring the fact under the notice of the Government, because he felt deeply that it involved a question affecting materially the security and stability of our Indian Empire.

THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE agreed with the noble Earl that it was

Lord Canning had so acted as to give countenance to such a belief as the noble Earl inferred, he would no longer deserve to be continued in his office as Governor General of India.

EARL GRANVILLE: The noble Earl has just furnished me with the source whence he derived his information—it is from an Indian newspaper-and it seems to me nothing can be more vague. For anything that appeared to the contrary it might be some scientific society, many of which had religious objects in view.

THE EARL OF ELLENBOROUGH: said that what had fallen from the noble Mar