propose to substitute, being sentences of much to the former system of transportation, as to that which will exist under this Bill if it becomes law. Upon the former occasion, when I brought forward this measure, I stated to the House that the practice formerly was not to send out of the country convicts who were sentenced only to seven years' transportation-those persons serving a certain portion, usually one-half, of their punishment in this country, and then, if well-behaved, receiving their discharge here. I was reminded by the right hon. Gentleman opposite that there was a Reso-person to be sent to a distant colony; nor lution of this House condemning that prac- can he know what demand may exist at the tice, in consequence of which the Govern- time for such description of persons in any ment endeavoured to send out all convicts particular colony, or the various other cirto Van Diemen's Land and New South cumstances which must aid in determining Wales instead of retaining them in this whether the convict ought to be sent abroad country. The greatly-increased number or detained at home. It is from no distrust of convicts thus sent from this country of the Judges that I say this. The most overwhelmed the colonies, and led to the ample discretion should be vested in them total break-down of the system under an in determining what the length of the senattempt to introduce the element of abso- tence should be, but it is the impossibility lute certainty into our sentences. But even of investing them with the knowledge and while the Government were endeavouring information necessary to enable them to deto carry out the Resolution of the House, cide when transportation should take place, the fact was that all convicts were not and when it should not, that renders it sent abroad. I find the total number necessary to leave the decision with the of convicts in Great Britain sentenced to Government. On this occasion I do not transportation during the ten years from wish to enter into the question-which has 1843 to 1852 inclusive-I stop there, as been fully discussed at a former period1852 was the last year previous to the of tickets of leave. The Bill leaves the alteration of the law-was 31,020, of law exactly as it now is; but the number whom only 22,322 were actually sent of convicts under sentence of transportaabroad, leaving a balance of 8,698, who, tion, and who can be dealt with as the although sentenced to transportation, yet system is now administered, is very much underwent their punishments in this coun- reduced. In lengthening sentences of petry. In Ireland, during the same period, nal servitude, so as to make them correthere were sentenced to transportation spond with sentences of transportation, we 12,631 men and 3,460 women, making have in view the adoption of the system a total of 16,091. Of these there were recommended by the Committee of this actually transported only 4,710 men, and House, which thought it desirable that a 3,038, nearly the whole, of the women, stimulus to good conduct should be held leaving 8,243 convicts, of whom 7,921 were out to convicts under sentence, in the men who were retained in Ireland. There prospect of a remission of part of the was, therefore, taking the United Kingdom term of punishment. I do not want to altogether in the ten years I have mention- enter upon that question on the present ed, a difference of 17,041 between the num- occasion, though, perhaps, it may be bers of those sentenced to transportation raised in Committee, but to the principle and of those who actually were sent abroad. I am prepared to give my concurrence, I quote these figures to show that, practi- believing that the opinion of the Comcally, uncertainty characterized the former mittee of this House is entitled to great system quite as much as it is likely to do weight. At the same time I think that, with reference to the proposed plan. In- while the remission of the remainder of a deed, I think there was more uncertainty sentence by means of a ticket of leave is a formerly, because the sentences then pro- power that ought to be retained, the genenounced being sentences of transportation ral rule ought to be an absolute remission could not be fully carried into effect with- rather than a qualified one. Gentlemen out the actual removal of the convicts from may have observed in the Bill now on the this country, while the sentences which I table some alterations as compared with the one which I introduced into the last | ried out nearer home, and brought more Parliament. Those alterations are not under the observation of those who were material, and are intended to clear up certain points on which there existed some doubt as, for example, in the second clause, in which reference is made to the power of the Court to sentence under the former law either to imprisonment or to a period of transportation. The clause has been framed so as to adapt this power to penal servitude.” And the fifth clause has been added, namely― 66 "Where in any enactment now in force the expression any crime punishable with transporta tion,' or 'any crime punishable by law with transportation,' or any expression of the like import, is used, the enactment shall be construed and take effect as applicable also to any crime punishable with penal servitude." There are Acts imposing certain penalties upon persons threatening others with crimes punishable with transportation which had been overlooked in the Act of 1853, and which it is necessary to extend to the punishment provided by this Bill; and there are also restrictions on sentences of transportation passed by certain courts, which ought to apply equally to corresponding sentences of penal servitude. With these exceptions, I may repeat that the main features of the Bill are identical with those of the measure which I formerly introduced. I trust the House is satisfied with the explanation which I have endeavoured to give, and I now move that the Bill be read a second time. He disposed to transgress against the laws. If he might so express himself, the deterring influence of punishment was now mystified by distance, and those who were disposed to transgress had a very vague and indistinct idea of the punishment to which they would be subjected, and this uncertainty diminished that salutary dread which all punishment ought to carry with it. This effect would be obviated if the punishment was carried out in their own neighbourhood. The next point was the reformation of offenders. It was unnecessary to refer to the horrid system of iniquity and disgusting depravity which existed in Norfolk Island and our other penal settlements abroad; and surely such places were not calculated to bring about a process of reformation. On the contrary, they must tend to demoralize the unhappy persons consigned to them. As to the third point, that of economy, he believed that if a different system were adopted the convicts might be made, if not remunerative, at least able to pay their own expenses. should like to see transportation done away with, and a system of penal settlements established within the four seas of Great Britain. One, or two, or more places, might be selected admirably adapted for the purpose, and if established on a proper system, the labour of the men, women, and children confined in them would not Moved, That the Bill be now read 2°. only serve to defray the whole expense inMR. BENTINCK moved as an Amend- curred, but would in many other ways be ment that the Bill be read a second time beneficial and useful to society. It would that day six months. He could assure the be premature in him to mention localities right hon. Baronet that he brought forward adapted to the purpose, but he did not his Amendment in no spirit of hostility to think much difficulty need be experienced the Bill, and in common with the rest of in making a selection. The great gain in the House he admitted the great attention the first place would be that the convicts which the right hon. Gentleman had paid would be under a proper supervision, and to the subject, and the great ability with that the objection to penal settlements which he had dealt with it; but he took abroad-that they were such scenes of this method of introducing his own views crime-would be avoided. With regard to the notice of the House, being opposed to the financial part of the question, he in toto to the principle of transportation. did not think he was too sanguine when he There were three great objects to be at- stated his belief that the whole expense tained in dealing with the question before now incurred would be saved; but, at all them-first, to protect society by the pre- events, a part of the expenditure would vention of crime; secondly, to effect as most certainly be saved. At present confar as possible the reformation of offenders; vict labour was almost, or entirely thrown and, thirdly, to deal with the subject with away. It was of no advantage to the the utmost regard to economy. Now, community, and it would surely be a great with regard to the first of these objects-gain if, by the compulsory labour of this the protection of seciety-he believed it class on useful works, a great pecuniary would be more likely to be attained if the advantage was conferred upon the country. punishment consequent on crime was car- He admitted there was one objection to the system he proposed, and he had stated it on a former occasion-namely, that there was an unfortunate tendency in this country, among a certain portion of the population, to entertain a feeling of maudlin humanity towards a man who had committed a crime; the moment a man became a malefactor one might almost imagine he was held entitled to become a martyr. Probably the right hon. Baronet was only too well aware how numerous were the applications for commutations of punishment in such instances. He was, therefore, quite ready to admit that that peculiar sympathetic feeling might render the carrying out of a system of home penal settlements somewhat difficult; still he thought the difficulty might be got over by the Government determining not to listen to applications for alterations of sentences. Surely a man who had brought himself within the ban of the laws of his country was bound to contribute to the resources of the country by any labour of which he was capable. But not only might a convict thus be made to pay his own expenses, but his labour might be turned to account in the construction of great public works-such as harbours of refuge, coast defences, and other works of great national value-which were so much needed, and which would never be carried out without some such assistance as this. Two-thirds of the expense of these works, it was said, consisted in the cost of labour, and if convict labour were employed the want of funds, which was always the argument advanced against the commencement of them, would be got over. It was needless to point out the great advantage which such works would confer on the country. There were several places in which the construction of harbours of refuge would be the saving of an immense amount of life and property annually, and without the aid of convict labour it was hopeless to expect that any such works would ever be undertaken. There was another question, which related to the disposal of the convicts at the termination of their sentences. There might be a system provided by which every man might at such termination, be provided with work by the Government, which would enable him to save money, and then to leave the country as a free emigrant. There was, again, the question whether the Government was to have the power of selecting who were to go out and who were to remain in the country, which was connected with another difficulty raised by the Home Secretary, that of deciding what men were by their physical capacity fitted to be sent abroad and which ought to be kept at home, and it would have the further advantage also of abolishing the ticket-of-leave system, which he was glad to hear was falling into disuse. It was impossible to say that the Home Office should not have the power of remitting punishment in certain cases, but the power ought to be exercised with great reserve, and only in cases where there had been miscarriage of justice or where new facts had been discovered. One of the greatest evils in the present system was the uncertainty of punishment; and to make it perfectly certain that an offender, except in such cases as he had just named, would receive the full amount of the punishment to which he was sentenced on his conviction, would do more than anything else to deter from crime. His plan would have the effect of saving a large amount of expenditure; it would lead to a better state of things for the future, and it would also enable the country to undertake the construction of important public works which were much needed and which could not be hoped for without convict labour; and the objections, therefore, which he had urged to the Bill were, he submitted, worthy of consideration. The notice which he had put on the paper was not meant in a spirit of hostility to the Bill. He approved its principle, but it did not go far enough, nor did he think that it could be sufficiently amended in Committee to meet the views which he had laid down. The hon. Gentleman concluded by moving that the Bill be read a second time that day six months. The Motion not being seconded, MR. ROEBUCK said that, as the Amendment did not appear to have found a seconder, he presumed that it had fallen to the ground, and he should therefore address himself entirely to the Speech of the Home Secretary. The right hon. Gentleman had not touched the real difficulty of the case. He had found a certain legal difficulty in dealing with convicts, and to avoid that he brought in the present Bill. With the convict we could deal in any way we chose, but when he ceased to be a convict we threw him on the world, and he had to deal with what he found in that world. In England we had plenty of labour, but the great cause of crime was the difficulty of finding employment. If everybody could find employment who wanted it, the amount man thus condemned, and we should have of crime in this country would not be so great as it was, and the number of convicts would be far smaller. But though employment was not to be found, the labourer was; and the difficulty was increased by the circumstance that tainted labourers could not find employment. A man who had been convicted, who had gone through penal servitude, came out upon society a branded man. He was driven, therefore, in actual self-defence, to the very crime for which he had been convicted. He was shunned by everybody; if he lived in a town, he was followed from street to street by the policeman; if he lived in the country, everybody knew that he had been a convict. Nobody would use his labour, and he must either starve or steal, and with those two alternatives before him, there was little doubt which he would choose. The difficulty lay not with the convict, while he was a convict, but in dealing with him after he had ceased to be a convict. There were two sets of circumstances to be considered-prisonment. He therefore said, let transthose which affected the convict in this portation in every case be transportation country, and those which affected the con- for life. When once a man was sent from vict in the Colonies. He would first al- this country, never let him return again. lude to the Colonies. All our Colonies, A man could not hope to come back with a with the exception of West Australia, character which would find him employhad determined to receive no more con- ment, and, therefore, when once he had victs; and some of them-Victoria and committed a crime which brought upon New South Wales for instance-had gone him the punishment of transportation, let so far as to say that no man who had been that transportation be for life. It was not a convict should come among them at all. necessary that the punishment should be Cases of great hardship had been laid before the same in all cases. All transportation that House, where people who had been should be for life, but the term of penal forty years in Van Diemen's Land, having servitude should vary. Thus, if a man gone there as convicts, had been excluded committed a great crime he should be confrom Melbourne because they were con- demned to transportation for life, but to victs, though they had lived many years in penal servitude for fifteen years. The man the town. He would suppose a man sen- who committed a crime of less magnitude tenced to one of those penal settlements re- should be condemned to transportation for ferred to by the hon. Gentleman opposite. life, but to penal servitude for seven years. What was he to do when liberated? No- He would first of all send the convict to a body would employ him. The man must penal servitude, and would then put him steal in order to save himself from starva- under the "surveillance" of a body of men tion. Well, he does steal; he comes who should control his labour. What was back-he is re-convicted, and goes back to it that induced the House to give up the penal servitude again. Such a man was in system of transportation? It was done, fact condemned for life. Society would he believed, at the instance of the late Sir not bear him. You make him a convict-William Molesworth, who obtained a Comyou brand him as a felon. Once a convict mittee to inquire into the subject, and the always a convict, and the man must con- evidence produced before that Committee tinue a thief until the gallows ended his brought forth such an amount of horrible career. It had been said that we might atrocities committed in our penal settlemake penal servitude in England for life. ments as shocked the feelings of the He appealed to every Gentleman if that people, leading to the belief that we were were possible. Penal servitude for life was sowing broadcast crime in all its shapes. so shocking to our feelings that compas- This was a thing which England ought sion would be excited immediately for any not to do, and therefore the House, in the hurry of the moment withdrew the system course which the House might safely and of transportation. All the crimes in ques- beneficially pursue, and one far superior in tion arose from one cause. In dealing statesmanlike character, to that peddling with this question, he hoped the House with difficulties which the right hon. Bawould not think he was doing so without ronet had submitted for their considerathe gravest consideration. What was the tion. cause of those crimes? It was the ab- SIR JOHN PAKINGTON: I cannot sence of women from the penal settle- agree, Sir, with the hon. and learned Genments, and, therefore, in order to prevent tleman, the Member for Sheffield, that the the recurrence of the horrors which were want of work is the main cause of crime laid before the Committee, he would in in England on the contrary, I believe every case of women being sentenced to that the two great causes of crime are, transportation, transport them. Penal ser- firstly, ignorance, and secondly, drunkenvitude in England, as had been remarked, ness. Nor can I agree with the hon. and was liable to the same abuse if men were learned Gentleman that the principal point congregated together as they were at Nor- we have to consider is how to deal with folk Island. The only way to prevent it our criminals after their punishment ceases. was by mixing in equal, or very nearly No doubt that is a most important matter; equal, proportions the two sexes, and that and one to which we are bound to give object he would effect by transporting attention; but the Bill before us is founded every woman condemned to transportation. upon the avowed difficulty of treating our Thus he provided for the punishment of convicts during that period in which the the criminal by subjecting him to penal interests of society require that they servitude for a certain time. Having un- should in some manner be penally dealt dergone that penal servitude in England, with. My hon. Friend behind me (Mr. he would be thrown upon society. We Bentinck) called this a dull subject. It all knew what had been the consequence of such a system. Society had been horrified and frightened by the uncertainty of life and property created by the ticket-ofleave men throughout the country, and the terror had proceeded so far that people had been afraid during the late winter of walking through the streets of London. To avoid that he would take the criminal population entirely away from England; he would subject them, in the first instance, to a term of penal servitude, he would make them go through the whole of that servitude, and then he would take them, not to any of our existing colonies, but to some new spot yet untouched by human adventure, where they might prove, as the same classes had done before, the beginning of a great empire. It would be invidious to point out particular instances, but it had been our fate to spread the English race abroad by means of our convict population, and what had once been done could be done again. So far from dealing with the question as the Home Secretary proposed to deal with it, he would alter the whole law, and, instead of not having recourse to transportation, SIR JOHN PAKINGTON: I am sorry he would have recourse to it in a greater to say that, practically, that has been the number of cases than before. He would case during the whole period for which we transport in every case for life-in the first have carried out sentences of transportaplace, to a penal colony, and thence to a tion. It is not to the credit of this country spot where the criminal could provide for that, although our courts have sentenced himself. Such appeared to him to be a criminals to be transported for periods of doubtless is so, but it is also one of the highest social importance, as well as one of extreme difficulty, and it is our duty to help the Government in dealing with an evil of such magnitude. I am afraid that the hon. and learned Member for Sheffield will not help us much by his plan, which, as I understand it, deals with convicts by transporting them for life, and sending them all to some new spot in the world not yet discovered [Mr. ROEBUCK: Not discovered?] Not yet settled, then; or, at any rate, on which the hon. and learned Gentleman had not yet determined. The hon. and learned Gentleman cannot mean seriously that every one of the large class of men whose interests were involved in the Bill before the House should be transported for life; nor could he mean to introduce something like the old Spartan law, which held that the smallest crimes deserved death, and that no other punishment could be inflicted for the greatest. MR. ROEBUCK: I said that every person subjected to transportation should be transported for life. |