person whose services they would be likely represented to them the position which to secure for so trifling a remuneration. this new clerk would occupy, and stated They had, however, signified their readi- that he thought the Masters had named a ness to enter upon the task of clearing off very moderate sum when they mentioned the arrears if the sum of £200 were al- £200. The Treasury accordingly adopted lowed annually for the payment of a proper the full recommendation of the Lord Chanofficer. That very reasonable proposal had cellor, and the order had been already issued not, however, as yet received the sanction authorizing the appointment of the addiof the Treasury, notwithstanding the cir- tional clerk at £200. The second proposicumstance that a considerable saving in tion of the hon. and learned Gentleman's dealing with the business which had until Bill proposed to provide safe places for the lately been disposed of in the office of custody of public records in Ireland. That Master Henn would be the result. It was was a matter which had engaged the attenin order to provide the requisite assistance tion of the Government at different periods, for the present Masters in the discharge until at length, in the course of last of their duties that he asked for leave to autumn, it was determined that not only introduce the present Bill, as well as to ought fitting accommodation be erected or promote the security of documents lodged allocated for the business of the Encumin the Court of Chancery in Ireland. He bered Estates Court, but also that provision might also add that, in accordance with ought to be forthwith made for the safe the existing practice in that court, a case keeping of the records. It was uncertain under the 15th section of Sir John whether the intervention of Parliament Romilly's Act, before it could be referred was necessary to enable the Government to the Masters must be submitted to the to carry out that determination; perhaps, Lord Chancellor, who had merely to nod however, some amendment in the exist his head expressive of his assent to the ing Act might be needed. For some proposal. That preliminary hearing it was time the Government had been engaged another object of the Bill to abolish, so about the purchase of land for the that the case would in the first instance erection of the edifices in question. It be laid before the men who at present was intended to erect an isolated buildsubstantially dealt with it throughout its ing on a large scale, where all the records progress. In fact, he wished to enable of the different courts of law would be dethe Masters to begin and complete their posited. It seemed to him, therefore, that business without extraneous and unneces- the two main objects of the Bill of the sary references. For instance, in winding- hon. Member for Enniskillen were already up accounts they were for a while preclud- realized. As for the third object of the ed from signing cheques on the estate; Bill, which would enable the Master, withbut now that that power is given there is out an order from the Lord Chancellor, no one to draw up the orders, and that to entertain a petition in Chancery, he accordingly was left to the solicitors them- would not stop to consider the expediency selves an improper state of the practice. of such a proposal. According to the preHis Bill would amend that also. He would sent practice, all petitions went before the now move for leave to bring in the Bill. Master on the order of the Lord Chancellor, and in the great majority of cases the order was made as a matter of course; but every one who was acquainted with the Irish Court of Chancery must be aware that the discretion of the Lord Chancellor was exercised to determine whether a case came within the statute, and whether it was a fit case to be referred to the Master. Next Session a large measure, having reference to the Incumbered Estates Court and the Court of Chancery in Ireland must be introduced, and whatever enactments regarding the transaction of business in those courts were necessary could then be introduced. Under those circumstances he would submit that, as the objects of the hon. and learned Gen

MR. J. D. FITZGERALD said, he hoped to convince the hon. and learned Gentleman and the House that this Bill was unnecessary. As had been stated by the hon. and learned Gentleman, in consequence of the death of Master Henn, the Lord Chancellor, in March last, after consulting the surviving Masters, recommended the addition of another clerk to each of the Masters, at a salary of £200. The Treasury acceded to the recommendation, with this exception, that the salary should be £100 a year, rising by £10 a year till it was £200. The Masters declined the offer; and he thought in so doing they acted very properly. When he came to London he went to the Treasury, and

tleman would be otherwise answered, it
would be superfluous to proceed with the
present Bill.
If, however, he wished to
lay the Bill on the table, he (Mr. Fitz-
Gerald) should not oppose its introduction.
MR. WHITESIDE said, though grati-
fied at the prospect held out by the hon.
and learned Gentleman, still as there were
three or four practical inconveniences ad-
justed by his Bill, which would otherwise
remain unredressed, he could not undertake
to withdraw the Bill until, at all events,
those details had been ventilated.

Leave given.

mooted, the impediment to satisfactory legislation had mainly arisen from differences of opinion among those who represented the views of the medical profession. The subject was one of very great importance, and pressing urgency. The State had taken upon itself to prescribe what should be the qualification of medical practitioners; but the laws by which the nature of that qualification was regulated were chiefly to be found in old charters and old statutes, and the whole subject was in a most confused and anomalous condition. The qualifications required were as various as was the

Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. WHITE- area over which those qualifications could

SIDE, and Mr. NAPIER.

Bill presented, and read 1o.

MEDICAL PROFESSION BILL.

LEAVE. FIRST READING.

MR. HEADLAM, in moving for leave to introduce a Bill to alter and amend the Laws regulating the Medical Profession, said it would be in the recollection of all present who were Members of the last Parliament that the first general object of the Bill was to ensure uniformity of medical education throughout the United Kingdom; so that a gentleman educated for the medical profession in Scotland would have to go through the same curriculum of studies as his brethren in England and Ireland. That was the first and most important feature of the Bill. It then went on to provide that a person who had passed his examination in one part of the kingdom obtained thereby a right to practise in any other. There was to be complete reciprocity of practice between England, Scotland, and Ireland. The third and last object of the Bill was to provide that a complete registry of the medical practitioners of the country should be kept, so that the public might be able to know who were duly qualified to practise. He had only to add that the objects of the Bill were carried out by a machinery which had been most carefully considered, and which had been approved of by the members of the medical profession generally.

be exercised. The College of Physicians and the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge adopted a high standard of qualification. There were other bodies who took quite a different view of the subject. For instance, the College of St. Andrew's, in former times, had taken a mercantile view of the matter, and not having facili ties for personal examination, used to forward their degree by return of post, on receipt of a fee of £25, or whatever sum might be agreed upon. This practice had been long discontinued, but it showed the latitude that existed. The College of Physicians was only enabled to give a licence to practise medicine within the metropolis and for seven miles around it; while those who obtained licences at the Universities might practise throughout the whole kingdom. The College at Glasgow could give licences to practise over only four counties, while the Coliege at Edinburgh gave them for the whole of Scotland, exclusive of those four counties. In the whole there were sixteen bodies in the United Kingdom, the diplomas of which entitled holders by law or usage to practise, and many incompetent persons received licences. For the practise of surgery, no qualification is required by law, and a man could call himself surgeon without knowing any graver operation than carving a fowl. What was generally speaking meant by the word "surgeon' was a member of the Royal College of Surgeons; but that was not the legal definition of the term; it was in his opinion MR. NAPIER seconded the Motion. extremely desirable that the State, having MR. COWPER admitted that the sub- assumed the power to settle the qualificaject of the Bill was one of great impor- tions for medical licences, should do it tance, and was glad to hear that it had effectually, and should not allow anybody met with the approbation of that profession to practise that profession without having the interests of which it to so great an ex-given proof of competent skill in his art tent affected, because, during upwards of as well as that he had received a fair genefifteen years that medical reform had been ral education. As things at present stood,

there were to be found among licensed to be removed. He did not, therefore, rise practitioners, men who were incompetent to offer any opposition to the introduction in technical skill, and deficient in intelli- of the Bill, but simply to put a question to gence and in an ordinary English educa- his hon. Friend, by the answer to which tion. The reason alleged by the College his course with respect to the subsequent of Surgeons, by way of excusing that progress of the measure would be guided. fact was, that the demand for general Before he put the question he should say practitioners was so great that, if a high a few words in explanation of its nature. standard of competency were fixed as ne- His hon. Friend had introduced a Bill in cessary before they could obtain a licence, the penultimate Session of the last Parliathe supply would not be equal to the de- ment which passed a second reading, but to mand, and the rural districts would be in which so many objections were taken on want of the services of medical men. Ex-going into Committee, that it was thought perience, however, in his opinion, tended advisable to refer it to a Select Committee. to show that such would not be the case, Whatever may have been the intention of inasmuch as it was quite clear that what he the framer of the measure, it was certainly might term over-competition now prevailed one which greatly favoured the medical in the profession, as was clearly shown by corporations. It entirely ignored the pothe circumstance that medical men were in sition of University graduates, and it had many instances found to be ready to take been characterized by the hon. Member under the Poor Law Board, salaries which for West Surrey as a Bill to provide for they themselves regarded as being an in- certain bodies corporate at the expense of sufficient remuneration for their services. our corporations. Well, the Bill was thus With reference to the Bill before the referred to a Select Committee, which House, he could only say that he was dis- sat several weeks, and which effected so posed to look upon it with favour, intro- great an alteration in the provisions of the duced as it had been under such favour- measure that scarcely a line of the original able auspices, and as emanating from an remained. The Bill thus changed had come hon. Member who had taken great pains down from the Committee, and was, he with the subject. The views of the Com- might say, unanimously reported to the mittee which had sat some time ago, and House. Now, he thought the most prac of which he (Mr. Cowper) was a member, tical step which the House could adopt embraced the necessity of uniformity of would be to take up that Bill again and to qualification, and of fixing a minimum pass it into a law, instead of embarking on standard, without having attained to which a fresh measure. The question, therefore, no one could obtain a licence to practise. he had to ask was, whether this Bill was In order to come up to that standard it bona fide the Bill of the Committee? It was necessary that a surgeon should know was possible enough that there might be a something of medicine, and that a physi- unanimous feeling among the medical corcian should be in some degree acquainted porations in favour of this Bill, without a with surgery, while it was left to the me- corresponding unanimity among the great dical colleges to fix the qualifications they body of the profession; and he was very might consider necessary for consulting much afraid that the tendency of the hon. physicians or pure surgeons. These were and learned Member's Bill would be, as the objects which he thought it was desir- the former one was, to benefit the corpoable to carry into effect in any legislation rations at the expense of the Universities. upon the subject, and in so far as the Bill Now, the medical education given in the of his hon. Friend tended to that end he Universities of Scotland and in the Unishould give it his cordial support. versity of London was about the best in the United Kingdom, and their degrees were a better test of a medical man's qualification than the examination before any of the corporations. The degree of Doctor of Medicine of the University of London carried more weight with it than the diploma of the College of Physicians, yet an M.D. of the University of London was prohibited from practising within seven miles of the metropolis. If the Bill were bond fide the Bill of the Committee he was

LORD ELCHO said, it had been remarked by the late Sir Robert Peel that there was scarcely a Session without a Salmon Bill, and in his (Lord Elcho's) opinion the same observation might very well be applied to the Bill before the House. He must, however, admit that in the laws relating to the practice of medicine there existed the most glaring injustice and anomalies, which, for the sake of the profession, as well as of the public, ought

ready to give the hon. and learned Member | rests of all parties in the medical profeshis humble support, but if it differed in sion, and to the rights and interests of the any essential respect he should ask leave of the House to lay upon the table to-morrow the Bill recommended by the Committee.

Bill.

MR. NAPIER said, he was a Member of the Select Committee on the previous measure. He hoped every facility would be given for passing the present Bill. They could not all have their particular views carried out; there must be concessions made in order to get a good and practicable measure. He believed that it was the great object of all parties to elevate the whole system of medical education, and to make it uniform, both of which desirable objects would be substantively effected if the measure passed into law. His own constituency and the other Universities in Ireland had agreed to it, various other bodies in England and Scotland had agreed to it, and he thought it would be improper to disappoint their expectations. great thing was to get a good basis in a sound enlightened general education of the members of the medical profession. This Bill would tend much to carry that out. He hoped, therefore, the House would give it every facility in passing.

public at large. His noble Friend was entirely in error when he suggested that there had been any intention to introduce a clause, inflicting a penalty on any one conMR. HEADLAM said, that in some sulting an unregistered practitioner. There respects his noble Friend had rather se- had never been the slightest attempt to put riously misrepresented the circumstances a stop to people "quacking" themselves if under which the former Bill had been they felt so disposed. The framers of the brought before the House. So far from Bill knew that the practice was too general that having been a Bill brought in on be- for them to attempt to fetter the subject in half of the corporations and colleges of the the free exercise of his judgment in that profession, it had been prepared and particular. After that statement, his noble brought forward by a totally different Friend would of course be at full liberty to body, who were not in any way connected, take any steps he might think fit; but he but were rather antagonistic to the colleges. hoped, under the circumstances, he should This body, of which Sir Charles Hastings have leave given him to introduce the was the President, went to the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and asked him to bring in the Bill. The Government declined to do so. They then applied to him (Mr. Headlam) to bring it in. So far from the Bill being in favour of the corporations, it was through their influence that it had been sent to the Select Committee. A deputation from the corporate bodies went to the Secretary of State for the Home Department, and induced him to offer objections to its going into Committee, and their opposition had been the cause of the final rejection of the Bill. In answer to his noble Friend's question as to whether the present measure was bona fide the Bill of the Select Committee, he would at once tell him that it differed in one most important particular. According to the scheme of the Committee, the Government was to appoint every single member of the council of the governing body. Now, in that shape the Bill would not have had the slightest chance of meeting the favour of that House, or of being acceptable to the medi- MR. CRAUFURD, as a Member of the cal profession and the country. In that Select Committee of last year, while convery material respect his Bill differed from curring as to the desirability of making a the Bill of the Committee; but it conform-good sound basis of education for the medied in all other material respects to the principles which were laid down by the Committee. It provided for education in the shape suggested; and it had regard to the rights and interests of all licencing bodies. The best proof that the rights of the University had been fully and fairly considered was, that the names of the hon. Baronet the Member for the University of Oxford and the right hon. Gentleman the Member for the University of Dublin were upon the back of this Bill. He believed the Bill had regard to the rights and inte

The

cal profession, could not but regret that the course taken by the noble Lord below him (Lord Elcho) had not been followed on the present occasion. They had had great difficulty in framing a measure which should satisfy the corporations and colleges, but notwithstanding the difficulty of the task they had come to an almost unanimous result. He thought, after having experienced the labour of that Committee, it was much to be regretted that in pursuing this question the hon. Member for Newcastle (Mr. Headlam) had not adopted the course which

appeared the most natural, that of bringing the mode in which it was carried on by the East India Company. The result of the discussion upon that occasion was that the question of the legality of the traffic was referred to the law officers of the Crown; and he now wished to ask the noble and learned Lord on the woolsack what progress had been made in the inquiry by those functionaries?

in the Bill as framed by that Committee, and leaving it to the House to decide whether his objections to the measure were really such as ought to be met and attended to. He thought good grounds could be shown for the alterations made in the Bill by that Committee. He did not think the interests of medical reform could be served by their continually chopping and changing As the present Bill differed in the material point of the governing body, he should reserve to himself the adoption of the course he should pursue until he saw it in print.

measures.

THE LORD CHANCELLOR said, that, in consequence of what passed when this subject was last before their Lordships, he immediately communicated to his colleagues, and particularly to the President of the Board of Control, the questions submitted by the noble Earl. As soon as the elections were over the President of the Board of Control lost no time in directing the proper officer connected with his department to draw up a case, stating the facts, that it might be submitted to the law officers of the Crown. That was done

MR. BLACK was of opinion that it was to be regretted that the Bill of the Select Committee had not been laid on table as the foundation of any Bill to be passed through that House. He would suggest that that course be adopted, in order that the House might be enabled to judge between the two measures, and decide on the-but there was some difficulty arising best.

LORD ELCHO begged to explain that he had not implied that the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for Newcastle had brought in the former Bill to favour the colleges, he had merely stated that he thought that would have been the effect of the measure. After listening to the reply of the hon. Gentleman, he begged to state that he should to-morrow ask for leave to bring in the Bill to which he had referred.

Leave given.

from the circumstance that it was all-
important that the facts should be stated
accurately-a task by no means so easy
as might at first sight appear.
The case,
however, was drawn up, and it had now
been transmitted by the President of the
Board of Control to the Court of Directors,
in order that they might see whether, in
their view, the facts were correctly given.
It was at present in their hands; but he
believed that in the course of a few days
it would be laid before the law officers of
the Crown; for there was no reason to

Bill ordered to be brought in by Mr. HEADLAM, apprehend that the facts were inaccurately

Sir WILLIAM HEATHCOTE, and Mr. NAPIER.

Bill presented, and read 1°.

House adjourned at Five o'clock.

stated.

INDIAN ADMINISTRATION-CASE OF

MR. THOMAS.

THE MARQUESS OF CLANRICARDE moved

"That there be laid before this House: "Return of the Appointments held by Mr. Thomas

in the Civil Service of the East India Company in the month of September 1854, and of the Appointments he may have since held up to the Date of the latest Accounts, distinguishing Judicial from other Appointments: Also, "Copies of any Correspondence that may have taken place between the Governor or other Superior Authorities at Madras and Mr. Thomas relative to the Case of Bhawanny Lallah v. Thomas, and to the Judgment delivered thereupon in the Supreme Court of Madras by Chief Justice Sir Christopher Rawlinson And also,

"Copies of any Correspondence that may have taken place between the Home Government and the Government of Madras upon that case."