that evening to the House, and he did not mean to disturb, by anything he should say, the unanimity with which he hoped the Address would be received. He rose principally for the purpose of stating that as they all came fresh from their constituents, after having talked over with them the affairs of the country, they ought, as he considered, to take the earliest opportunity of making known what was the policy which those constituents wished the House should carry into effect. He did not pretend to be the organ of any section in that House, or to speak for anybody except himself; but as he had returned from a longer interview with his constituents than any other Member, perhaps, in the House, inasmuch as he had addressed, during a period of nearly three weeks, public meetings in various parts of the metropolis, and of the county of Middlesex, he hoped it would not be altogether unbecoming upon his part to lay before the House a brief outline of the measures which his constituents were anxious to see passed into law. One of the subjects in which they felt the strongest interest was that of a reform of Parliament, or, to adopt the hustings' phrase, he should rather say an extension of the suffrage. He entirely agreed with the hon. Gentleman who had seconded the Address, that a case of expediency could hardly be made out as an argument for such a change. He believed that, as Mr. Cobden had once said, there was very little doubt that the House of Commons, as at present elected, substantially reflected the public opinion of the country. But that was not the whole of the case with which the House had to deal. The hon. Gentleman, the Seconder of the Address, had said that they would have to direct their attention to the propriety of extending the suffrage to the poorer classes. There was, however, a further point for their consideration. It was not altogether a question of giving the franchise to the poorer classes, as many persons who were not poor did not possess the suffrage, and that was one of the evils that the public desired to see remedied. The great Reform Bill of Lord Grey-or he should, perhaps, rather say of his noble Friend the Member for London (Lord J. Russell) -was certainly a very great step in advance; but he thought that an experience of its working during a period of nearly a quarter of a century showed that that measure contained defects and anomalies which were at present susceptible of a remedy. The forty shilling franchise was certainly very low, but under the existing system of land tenure and the working of society there were considerable numbers of persons who did not enjoy the franchise, although they were, perhaps, better qualified for properly exercising the right of voting than many persons on whom that right had been conferred. There was another important consideration involved in this question. They all disliked to have a perpetual succession of reform bills, and that unsettlement of the public mind so prejudicial to the good working of Government to which the introduction of a constant series of such measures would necessarily lead. He believed it would be a very good thing if the noble Lord at the head of the Government(whom his constituents desired him to support, and whom both he and they desired to see long occupying the place he now filled)-at once announced that he was prepared to bring in a measure of a more elastic and self-acting character than the Reform Bill under which the House was at present elected. At the same time he did not think that the whole power in that case should be given to mere numbers. He did not know whether his hon. Friend the Member for Bristol (Mr. H. Berkeley) meant to bring forward in the course of that Session his usual Motion for the establishment of vote by ballot; that was a measure at once simple and compendious, and might be treated on its own merits; but he (Lord Robert Grosvenor) should deprecate any attempt to deal in a piece-meal fashion with the question of Reform, and he hoped that the Government would, at the commencement of the next Session, introduce a Bill for its settlement in a large and comprehensive spirit. For himself, he thought that man would be no true friend to reform who, during the present Session of Parliament, should seek to introduce a measure of that kind. Passing from this point, there was one subject, with regard to the practiceshe would not exactly say the corrupt practices, but practices highly inexpedient at elections-to which he would shortly call the attention of the House. He had had the good fortune and the honour during the last Parliament to induce it to take two steps out of the four recommended by the Committees of 1834-35. One was the limitation of the county polling to one must do something for the purpose of restoring the lost Members. He trusted the noble Viscount would introduce a measure for restoring the paralyzed limb of the metropolis; and with respect to the disfranchised boroughs, it would be his (Lord R. Grosvenor's) duty to make a claim, and a very strong one, on the part of that large portion of the constituency he had the honour of representing, residing in Chelsea, Kensington, and Hammersmith, and who were not possessed of a vote for the county of Middlesex, to the vacant seats. The population of those districts was very large and important, and had a strong claim to representation in that House. He mentioned this subject, not only because it was one in which his con day, and the other the entire prohibition of treating at elections. He had shown himself, he hoped, not altogether an unsafe guide upon this subject, and it was his anxious desire to induce the House to take the two remaining steps-namely, to prohibit the conveyance of the voters to the place of polling by candidates, and to do away with the absurd anomaly of making the candidates pay the expenses of the hustings. He did not wish at the present moment to enter into any argument upon these topics, but desired merely to inform the House, while candidates were still smarting under the expenses of the election, that it was his intention at the earliest possible period to introduce a Bill upon that subject. There was another point upon which his constituents were most anxious. As the Ad-stituents were peculiarly interested, but dress had been moved by one hon. Mem- because it was at the same time one of ber representing a county, and seconded Imperial concern. Another important subby another returned for a mercantile town, ject-one, indeed, in which the metropolis perhaps the House would like to hear the was vitally interested-was the equalization opinion of what might be termed an am- of the poor rates within the metropolitan phibious Member in this respect. He was districts. That was a question which pesuch a one, being the representative of culiarly affected the metropolitan districts, both. That subject was church rates. but though in a great measure local, it It was one upon which the constituency was deserving of serious consideration. of the county which he had the honour He was quite aware that there were upon of representing, and indeed the whole that question various opinions, but he country, had shown itself extremely anxious; and without the slightest disparagement to the hon. Gentleman who now represented the Tower Hamlets, he (Lord R. Grosvenor) deeply regretted the absence of Sir William Clay, who had so long given his mind to this question, and who had so perseveringly and so ably brought it under the attention of the House. In his opinion, there was only one way of settling the question, and that was for Her Majesty's Government to bring forward a Bill upon it. Should they decline to do so, he was himself prepared to propose a measure to the House; but he hoped the noble Viscount at the head of the Government would think that on a matter so deeply affecting the interests of the Established Church the Bill should proceed from the Treasury Bench, and not be left in the hands of any private Member. He should not trespass further on the House with regard to the question, than to say it was absolutely necessary that something should be soon done. Another point to which it was necessary to call the attention of the House was, that position in which the House stood with respect to its membership. They were not a complete House at that moment. Some of their Members were amputated; they thought it one of paramount importance. Having had occasion to make addresses upon these topics to his constituents, he could not sit still and refrain from expressing frankly and fairly in that House their desire. After thanking the House for their patient attention, he said it was not his intention to propose any Amendment to the Address. He quite rejoiced at the manner in which it was drawn up, which was such that he thought no Member would withhold his assent from it. This was the more desirable because it was an occasion upon which the House was brought into contact with their much-reverenced and much-loved Sovereign, and, therefore, the Address should, if possible, be so framed that they should all be able to agree to it. MR. W. EWART regretted that no allusion was made in the Speech from the Throne to the question of a Minister of Justice. That subject was brought forward in the last Parliament by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for Dublin University (Mr. Napier), and, on his Motion, an Address was agreed to by the House. In the Speech from the Throne reference was made to many law reforms, but he could not see how those reforms were to be accomplished unless they were to have a source or fountain from which they might be derived. The foundation of all law reform was, in his opinion, the establishment of a Ministry of Justice. The question of Parliamentary Reform had been justly alluded to by the noble Lord behind him, who, coming fresh from his constituents, had conveyed to the House an echo of their opinions. He did not wish to press this question on the Government prematurely, but thought the best course for Her Majesty's Ministers to pursue would be, to obtain such returns, and lay them before the House, as would enable Parliament and the country to form an intelligent opinion upon any measure which might be proposed in a future Session. The returns he alluded to would be such as to contrast the effect of the extension of the suffrage on an educational basis with its extension on a property or other qualification. When those documents were laid before them, they would be able to found a new Reform Bill upon a safe and secure basis, and he hoped to hear from the Government that such a proposition was not alien to that line of policy which they had prescribed for themselves. VISCOUNT PALMERSTON: Sir, there seems to be so little disposition upon the part of the House to go into any detailed argument upon the Address, or to enter upon a discussion of the various matters to which the Speech refers, that I shall not take upon myself to do that which other Members do not seem disposed to do, and which the House, therefore, will not expect from me. There are, however, one or two points which have been touched upon with respect to which I feel it necessary to say a few words on the part of Her Majesty's Government. I will allude first of all to the topic referred to by my hon. Friend behind me. There was an Address moved and agreed to last Session with regard to the establishment of a Department of Justice. That Address was moved by the hon. and learned Gentleman the Member for the University of Dublin. We stated at the time that that was a subject full of difficulty in regard to the mode in which the proposition should be carried into execution, and the hon. and learned Gentleman I am sure fully concurred in that view. I can only say on that point, therefore, that we have under consideration the best means of accomplishing the object which the hon. and learned Gentleman and the House had in view, and I trust that VOL. CXLV. [THIRD SERIES.] we shall be able to propose to the House some arrangement which will sufficiently carry out the purposes which that Address had in contemplation. I quite concur with my noble Friend who spoke just now (Lord R. Grosvenor), that, considering the shortness of the period during which Parliament can in this present Session sit— considering, also, the great importance of the many practical measures of improvement which are indicated in the Speech from the Throne, and which will be proposed to the House, it would be highly inexpedient that this House should enter into the discussion of so large and sweeping a question as a change in the representation of the people in Parliament; because such a discussion could not lead to any conclusive result in the present Session of Parliament, while it is obvious that discussions begun in one Session, and which are to be concluded by measures in the next, could only unsettle the minds of men, and lead to anticipations which would embarrass those who might in a future Session have to propose measures for the consideration of Parliament. But, Sir, on the other hand, Her Majesty's Government admit that it will be their duty, during the period which will intervene between the conclusion of the present Session and the beginning of the next, to take this subject into their fullest and most deliberate consideration. It would be very unsuitable for me, at a moment when the Government have not had the opportunity of giving to that matter the consideration which is due to it, to say anything in regard to the details of measures that might be proposed in a future Session, which would imply anticipatory conclusions, and which, by fixing the Government upon one point or another, might lead afterwards to disappointment if the result did not correspond with the expectations raised, and which, at all events, would embarrass the free consideration and decision of the Government during the period to which I have alluded. But it will be the duty of the Government in the ensuing recess-to give to that matter their most anxious and most serious consideration, and I hope, indeed I am confident, that at the beginning of the next Session we shall be able to propose to Parliament some measure which will, we think, be well calculated to meet the just expectations of the country, correct those defects which exist in the present D MR. ROEBUCK: I congratulate the House that we have now a distinct pledge from the noble Lord that he intends next year to bring forward a measure of Parliamentary reform. There is no mistake as to his intentions. The noble Lord tells us that in the present state of the representation there are great anomalies-that_various classes are not now represented in this House who deserve to be represented, and that it will be the duty of Her Majesty's Government during the recess to frame such a measure as will confer the representation upon these classes. Accepting from the noble Lord, that statement with the interpretation I have put upon it, I can only say I am not one of those who might be inclined to interrupt the course of business in the present Session. Having a clear and distinct statement from the noble Lord that it is his intention to deal with the question of Parliamentary reform, I shall not interfere with his efforts by throwing any obstacle in his way. the interpretation which I have placed upon the words of the noble Lord, I thought it only right to state to this House, plain, simple, straightforward and intelligible, the pledges which the noble Lord had given to the House, and which the House would not forget. system of representation, and extend the is well aware is full of practical difficulty. franchise to classes of persons now unme- That subject is now under the consideraritedly excluded from that privilege. More tion of the Goverument, and I hope we than that I trust the House will not expect shall be able to propose some measure on me to say. If this House has confidence it which will alleviate the difficulties which in Her Majesty's Government, they ought have hitherto presented themselves. I so far to exercise their forbearance as not cannot promise definitively to propose a to endeavour in this Session to press Her measure until we have made up our minds Majesty's Ministers to declare themselves upon the subject; but that matter is under on particular points in reference to repre- the consideration of the Government, who sentative reform; but if it has not sufficient anxiously desire to frame such a measure confidence in the Government as to be will- as shall be satisfactory to the different ing to wait till next Session on a matter classes of the people of this country. that requires so much and such grave deliberation, they had better at once say so and place the administration of the affairs of the country in other hands. I am, Sir, glad in being able to congratulate the House on the prospect of the continuance of peace which the present condition of affairs in Europe holds out as mentioned in the Speech of Her Majesty's Commissioners. I trust that the animosities engendered by the great conflict in which a part of Europe was engaged for two years will give way to the more peaceful relations and intercourse which have succeeded that war, and that the great Powers who were engaged in that contest, feeling that their permanent interests are identified with the maintenance of good relations with each other, will cast into oblivion all those sentiments of hostility which the conflict for a time may have created, and permit them to be replaced by feelings of good-will and friendship. I trust, too, that all the great Powers of Europe will discover that freedom of commercial intercourse and a development of the national resources form not only the best system of policy for the interests of their particular countries, but also create a link of union with other countries which otherwise might occupy an adverse position. The more a country advances in material wealth and prosperity, and the more its Government developes its internal resources, the more, on the one hand, will it increase its means of defence should defence ever become necessary; and, on the other hand, the greater will be the interests which will be bound up in the maintenance of peace and the existence of which will dissuade Governments from entering into or prosecuting unjust wars. There is one question which my hon. Friend touched upon which we know is regarded as a great question; I mean the question of church rates. Well, Sir, that also is a subject which the House Question put, and agreed to. Such being Committee appointed "to draw up an Address to be presented to Her Majesty upon the said Resolution: Mr. DODSON, Mr. BUCHANAN, Viscount PALMERSTON, The CHANCELLOR of the EXCHEQUER, Sir GEORGE GREY, Mr. SECRETARY LABOUCHERE, Sir CHARLES WOOD, Mr. VERNON SMITH, Mr. BAINES, Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL, Sir BENJAMIN HALL, Mr. ATTORNEY GENERAL for IRELAND, The LORD ADVOCATE, Mr. Lowe, Mr. BouVERIE, Mr. HAYTER, and Mr. FITZROY, or any Five of them :" To withdraw immediately. Lord Commissioners' Specch referred. The House adjourned at ten minutes past Six o'clock. HOUSE OF LORDS, Friday, May 8, 1857. MINUTES.] Sat First in Parliament.-The Earl of Ellesmere, after the Death of his Father. Took the Oaths.-Several Lords. GENERAL ASHBURNHAM-DISCIPLINE The the public service were concerned. expedition to China was comprised, like every other expedition, of commanding and subordinate officers; and if attacks of this kind General Ashburnham upon were permitted, it was impossible that the subordinate officers and men could feel a proper confidence in their commanding officer. The interests of the public service, however, demanded that such a THE EARL OF CARDIGAN said, that he feeling should prevail among the subordiwished to put a question to the noble Lord nate officers and men who composed the the Secretary for War with respect to the force. At the same time that he felt attack that had been recently made on deeply the attack that had been made General Ashburnham. He was, unfortu- upon General Ashburnham, he did not nately, not present yesterday upon the oc- deny that his statement was somewhat casion of moving the Address in reply to connected with his own position. He had Her Majesty's gracious Speech, when an had the honour of addressing their Lordincidental discussion arose upon the affairs ships some time since on this subject, and of China, and the expedition which had he was then advised that it would not be been lately sent out to that country. He desirable to bring the persons who had atnow wished to bring before their Lordships' tacked him to a court-martial, particularly consideration the subject of the attacks those who had attacked him anonymously. which had recently been made upon the Their Lordships, however, knew that he general officer appointed to command that had suffered under the grossest calumnies, expedition. He was glad to hear that the and he felt it to be a great injustice that noble Lord (Lord Panmure) had made the officer who had so calumniated him what he (the Earl of Cardigan) could not had not been compelled to prove the truth but consider an excellent suggestion-that of his assertions. He (the Earl of Cardithose officers who anonymously or other- gan) was not then going to bring his case wise made erroneous statements in the before their Lordships; but he must say, public press against their commanding that unless some check were put upon this officers should not be employed by Her system of subordinate officers calumniating Majesty's Government in future. He (the their superior officers, the discipline of the Earl of Cardigan) also understood that the army would be destroyed; because, if offinoble Lord the Secretary for War had cers were permitted to calumniate their great difficulty in ascertaining who those superiors with impunity, even non-commisofficers in the army were who, from time sioned officers and all the subordinates in to time, were the authors of those state- the army would do the same, and any man ments. He could not think there would who had a spite against his commanding be much difficulty in arriving at the truth officer would take this means of revenging and knowledge of who the authors were. himself. He would, therefore, earnestly But the question he wished to put to the entreat the noble Lord to consider whether noble Lord was, whether he did not think it would not be expedient, in the case where the present state of things was unreason- an officer publicly avowed himself to be the able; and, in the case of officers who were author of letters containing attacks upon the authors of the present calumnies against his military superior-or in any other their superior officers, whether it was not cases where it was possible to discover who advisable that some system should be adopt he was-that some steps should be taken ed by which the noble Lord as Secretary to bring him to trial. He repeated that of State for War, in conjunction with he had himself been grossly calumniated, the Commander in Chief, might be enabled and that those calumnies had been repeatto bring any such offender to trial in order ed since he had had the honour of addressto test the truth of his assertions; and, if ing their Lordships on this subject. When he failed in establishing their truth, that he remembered that his services in the he should be punished in the most sum- Crimea had met with, fortunately, the supmanner? He had taken this occa- port and approbation of all his superior mary sion of bringing the subject before the officers, both those who were friendly to notice of their Lordships, because a case him and those who were not-that they had now arisen in which the interests of were acknowledged in the public de |