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be on payment of the duties both on the Rhine and on those canals. It was by England that the demand was originated, he suspected, for the purpose of favouring Belgium; for the purposed arrangement was not to be found in any previous treaty. The general custom throughout Germany was, that the Powers, the territories of which were seated on the banks of a river common to several states, had the management of that part of it which flowed through their country, subject to the payment of tolls which were sometimes regulated by treaty, The King of Holland possessed this common right, and he was bound to provide for the due passage of the river; but the noble Earl insisted upon his sharing a charge, which properly belonged to himself, with the king of the Belgians. He must now advert to the right asserted, on the part of the Belgian commerce, of passing through Maestricht. He contended, that the case was not at all similar to that of the permission granted by Prussia to some of the minor Powers to pass through the Prussian fortresses, to which it had been compared. Independent of the principles proclaimed by the Belgians, when they said, "Belgium must be permitted to plant her flag and proclaim the principles of her independence in the towns and possessions of those opposed to her--we must have a garrison every where." Such a speech as this must, of course, excite attention in Holland; and could their Lordships believe it possible that another State would tolerate a free passage through its fortified places to persons who held such doctrines? And, with respect to the fisheries, although that was of minor importance, yet, still there were rights attached to them in various places through which the different rivers flowed, which ought to be respected, but for which no provision was made to reserve the rights of the king of the Netherlands. It was, therefore, not at all probable that that sovereign would be disposed to acquiesce in such propositions. But, if he were induced to grant these concessions, why was he not to have the benefit of making a Treaty of Commerce from which he would derive all the advantages of them? Let their Lordships consider what Holland had paid for Belgium. By the Treaty of 1814, Belgium was united to Holland; but Holland was to give compensation to Sweden for the cession of certain colonies, and to advance money for the restoration of the fortifications in the Low Countries. For that purpose she had sold four of her

colonies. Holland had to pay 1,000,000l. to Sweden, and 2,000,000l. for the Netherland fortifications, in addition to the 1,000,000l. for her share of the contribution of Paris, besides the Russian loan, and other sums, amounting altogether to 7,000,000/. sterling; besides 20,000,000 of francs. Such was the sum which Holland had paid for Belgium; and the compensation which it was now proposed she should receive was 600,000 florins, or about 60,000l. a year. The noble Earl opposite had said, that this arbitrary act had been the only way of avoiding a war. But the whole question was one of justice. Had we a right to do what we had done? So far from avoiding war, in his opinion, the course of conduct pursued in this respect by his Majesty's Ministers was calculated to breed foreign war, as their course of conduct in another respect, was calculated to breed civil war. He called on their Lordships, however, not to be alarmed at the declaration of the noble Earl. The noble Earl allowed that three great Powers hesitated to ratify the treaty; he (the Duke of Wellington) might, he believed, say they were determined not to ratify it, until they had the consent of the king of the Netherlands, who, on his part, never would consent to it in its present form. He had only to add, in conclusion, that he trusted their Lordships would not be deterred from doing their duty on this and other subjects by threats either of foreign or domestic war.

Viscount Goderich must say, that he thought the noble Duke who had just sat down had given no answer at all to the powerful speech of his noble friend near him. The noble Earl (Aberdeen) who had brought forward this Motion seemed to think it was a perfectly justifiable one, but yet he had thought it necessary to produce to their Lordships precedents in support of it, supposing naturally enough, that, in the present state of our negotiations with regard to Belgium and Holland, their Lordships might be of opinion that the course which the noble Lord had thought proper to pursue was any thing but justifiable. When, however, the noble Lord went to the reign of Charles 2nd for a precedent, the noble Lord must have selected from that part of our history merely because the matter then in question related to Holland, as the matter now in question did; for assuredly there was no other similarity between the two cases. That which, in the reign of Charles 2nd excited the anger and the indignation of Parliament, was a know

ledge of the profligate corruption of the complained of might have been abolished; King, who had been bribed by France not but neither was done, and, indeed, scarcely only to desert, but to assist in crushing and time was given for doing either. One destroying, our ally, Holland. It was short week entirely changed the character known, too, that the corrupt Ministers of of these troubles. The attack of the Prince Charles had shared in the bribes of their of Orange on Brussels might, if it had profligate master; and under these circum- proved successful, have again turned the stances it was, that the Parliament of tide, and have succeeded in putting down Charles 2nd took the measures to which the the malcontents. The fact, however, was, noble Lord had alluded. He trusted, that that it did not succeed; and that failing, even the noble Lord himself would hardly it made matters much worse than they had say that the present case and that of Charles been before. The subsequent stages of the 2nd were parallel, so far as the reasons of revolution pressed with a rapidity which the course pursued in the two cases were was almost unprecedented, and which must concerned. He would readily admit, how- have baffled the policy of the most sagacious ever putting out of consideration the and the most prudent man. The indepenextreme case of Charles 2nd-that a case dence of Belgium was de facto established might occur which would fully justify such from the moment in which the Belgian a motion as the present; but then, in order Congress proclaimed and declared that into render such a motion justifiable, their dependence; for, from that moment it Lordships would have, in the first place, to became evident to every man that the decide that the Ministry had done some- separation between the Belgic provinces thing which threatened, in its consequences, and Holland could not be prevented, except to compromise the interests of the country, by force. In this light it was quite evident or the dignity of the Crown. Were their that the king of Holland himself viewed Lordships prepared to say, that in the the affair; for he did not call upon the measures hitherto pursued by the Govern- other powers to mediate between him and ment, so far as their Lordships had received Belgium, but he called upon them to put information of those measures, there was down the Belgic revolution by force, and any thing which could justify their Lord- so to reduce his revolted subjects to obeships in coming to such a conclusion? He dience. No one could doubt what the anthought their Lordships would be far from swer of the Powers would be to such an entertaining such an opinion, which he was application. They refused to entertain it, sure would be as erroneous a one as ever and they wisely so refused. The applicamen entertained. He did not mean, at that tion, therefore, proved no more than that late hour of the night, to drag their Lord- the Dutch clearly perceived that nothing ships once more through all the circum- but force could prevent a separation of the stances of the Belgic revolution; but it Belgic provinces from Holland. He was would be absolutely necessary to go some-justified, then, in saying, that the indewhat back, in order to understand the position in which the Government was placed. The noble Duke (Wellington) had found fault with his noble friend (Earl Grey) for saying that the late Government had provided the present with all the difficulties and embarrassments by which this question was surrounded; but he had heard no such expression fall from his noble friend. He had understood his noble friend to say, that the present Administration had inherited those difficultiesa nd embarrassments from its predecessor. His noble friend had said, "We found them: they are not ours; and most truly had his noble friend described the manner in which this Government had met with these difficulties. The origin of the troubles of Belgium was, to all appearance slight, and apparently easy to remove. The obnoxious minister might have been dismissed, and the local taxes

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pendence of Belgium was de facto established when the present Government came into office, since nothing short of an universal war, which was not to be thought of, could have prevented its separation from Holland. He would ask, then, whether it would have been wise, even though it had been practicable, to allow matters to remain in that condition? And if not, what could be done?-how could negotiations for the settlement of these troubles be even commenced, without first acknowledging the independence of Belgium. The Govern ment was compelled to choose between acknowledging the independence of Belgium, and entering into a war for the purpose of putting an end to that independ ence. Such was the necessity under which the Ministers had found themselves compelled to act on coming into office; and if their Lordships admitted the existence of

that necessity, it was impossible that they could entertain the Motion of the noble Earl. Their Lordships might have known from the ordinary channels of information what decision the Conference had made upon particular points of the subsequent negotiations; but before their Lordships could fairly judge respecting those decisions, they ought to be in possession of all the facts which had influenced the determinations of the Conference. At present it was impossible to communicate those facts to their Lordships; and in the face of that impossibility, which no one knew better than the noble Lord himself, the noble Earl had brought forward this Motiona Motion, the object of which was (for it was idle to mince the matter), to condemn the Ministers to perpetual infamy, and to call upon them to give reasons why they should not be so condemned, though the noble Earl was aware that such a call was a mockery, since their tongues were tied, and their public duty prevented them even from stating their case. He did not think it necessary, after the able speech of his noble friend, to trespass further upon their Lordships' attention than just to notice slightly one or two of the objections of the noble Earl (Aberdeen). First, then, the noble Earl had contended, that the article respecting the navigation of the rivers was unjust; but the noble Earl had given no reason for this opinion, and he confessed that he was at a loss to perceive wherein the injustice of the article consisted. The article was, in fact, derived from certain principles laid down and acted upon by the Congress of Vienna. The principles were, as the noble Earl was well aware, at variance with the old maxims of the law of nations; and the object of them was, not to prevent collision, but to facilitate commerce, and to make nations less strangers to each other than they were before. These were, he admitted, very wide principles, but not more wide than wise, although in direct opposition to the principles of the noble Earl (Aberdeen), whose argument was, that the rivers should be shut up, in order that commerce might be obstructed, and nations made more strangers to each other than they had ever been before. Now, it had never occurred to any one in the Conference, nor to many probably out of it, that the opening of these waters would be injurious to the interests of Holland. Indeed, the Dutch themselves had not made this discovery till it was of use to them as a pretext for not agreeing to the terms pro

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posed by the Allied Powers. They did not object to it in the memoir, though he believed they did in the note which had been sent to the Conference; but then that objection was of a different character to that of the noble Lord. They said, that it was unheard of, that the duties and tolls, &c. should be regulated by the common consent of other Powers. Now, this he begged leave to deny. It was not unheard of. A treaty was signed on the 29th of May, 1815, between Prussia and Hanover, respecting the navigation of the Ems; and an article of that treaty said, that the duties on Prussian and on Hanoverian ships should be the same; but it said, also, that the two Powers should, of common accord, settle what the amount of those duties should be. He thought, therefore, that the Dutch had made more of this article than it was worth, and he had shown that they were wrong in their facts when they talked of such a regulation being unheard of. It would not be difficult for him to show, that the greater part of the noble Earl's objections were as unsubstantial as this respecting the navigation of the rivers; but he felt that at so late an hour he had already trespassed too far upon their Lordships' attention. Although nothing could exceed the vehemence, not to say violence, of the imputations which the noble Earl had cast upon the Government, he must be allowed to tell the noble Earl that, as far as his own conscience was concerned, he felt perfectly easy under these imputations, knowing them to be utterly destitute even of the shadow of foundation. He called upon the House to go to the vote with this recollection, that if—and he solemnly declared the fact was so-the Government had conducted these negotiations from the commencement to the end with the most strict and scrupulous attention to the honour and the interests of the country, no motion could be more uncalled for, and unjustifiable, than the present; and that while, on the one hand, the noble Earl had made out no case which ought to lead their Lordships to suspect for a moment that the conduct of Government had not been of that character, so, on the other hand, a sense of public duty precluded the Government from making public those facts which were essential to the complete justification of their conduct.

The Earl of Aberdeen begged to assure the House, that there were but one or two points to which he was desirous to allude, and, that he would do so as briefly as possi ble. Now that he had learned from the

noble Earl (Grey) what the noble Earl | inherent in any nation to choose its own meant by a guarantee, he was not at all government. He would beg to add one surprised, that the noble Earl had entered word more in reference to the remark made into a guarantee of such a nature as that by the noble Viscount (Goderich) who had which he had described. Now that he said, that the navigation of rivers was knew how the noble Earl understood his occasionally regulated by a convention beengagements, he should not be surprised at tween those sovereigns through whose any engagement the noble Earl had made, territories they flowed, and had instanced or might make. The noble Earl had told Prussia and Hanover with regard to the them, that all they would be called to do, Ems. No doubt, two interested parties under this guarantee, was to see the amount could regulate such matters as were comof the debt transferred from one great book mon to themselves, and, therefore, they into another great book, but the words of ought to have left this right to be settled the treaty were' And the payment of the between Holland and Belgium themselves ; sum above mentioned, of 8,400,000 florins, the complaint was, that a third party had 'shall take place regularly every six arbitrarily stepped in and insisted upon the 'months either at Brussels or Antwerp, in navigation of rivers without consulting 'hard money, without any deduction of either party, and against the especial in'whatsoever nature it may be, either at terest of one of them. His great objection 'present or in future.' Surely the noble to this treaty, however, was-apart from Earl could hardly have read the treaty the injustice of it-that it would render which contained these words, but if he had war unavoidable. However great might really read it, and yet so understood the be the noble Earl's desire to preserve peace, guarantee, then he might, with equal he would too soon find that this treaty safety, guarantee even the course of the would force him into a war. In spite of winds and the waves. But let the treaty what had fallen from the noble Lords oppobe agreed to, and he would defy the per- site, he must contend that the late Adminformance of it, because, to perform it would istration left to its successors no other be found impossible. With reference to than very light embarrassments in regard the division of the debt, the noble Earl to our foreign relations; and he had always had said, that he considered the portion looked upon a greater probability of war as assigned to Belgium as an ample portion, one of the almost inevitable results of the and, that such division was only the deve- retirement of the noble Duke near him lopement of the old engagement. Now by from his Majesty's councils. That illustrithe old engagement, the portion taken by ous man had, by his abilities, his expeBelgium, was 14,000,000 florins, and by rience, and his reputation, been enabled the new engagement it was 8,400,000 to inspire our allies with confidence, and to florins; so that if this were a developement strike fear into the hearts of our enemies; at all, it was a developement of a very odd and those feelings in the bosoms both character a developement by means of of our friends and our foes were never contraction. According to the opinion of higher than at the moment the noble Duke the members of the Conference themselves, quitted office. The noble Lord had taunted the Dutch had a right to expect, that up- him with the separation of Saxony, and wards of 10,000,000, at least, of the debt, affirmed, that he (the Earl of Aberdeen) would be charged to Belgium. The noble had no reason to complain of the separation Earl had, in the first place, denied, that of Luxemburg; but he must again and any unnecessary intervention had been had again declare, that he considered the proresource to, and then he said, that violence jected division of the Grand Duchy of had been resorted to, from necessity, to in- Luxemburg as the forcible spoliation of the duce the Dutch government to yield. If territories of an old ally. The noble Earl the House was to be told, that this prince had told him to look at Genoa, and Sarobjects to this king, and that potentate to dinia, and Saxony; but those were conthe other, and if every power was to have quered countries, to be dealt with as the a veto in the nomination of a sovereign, a conquerors pleased. These instances furpretty sort of independent State must be nished no justification of the present, which the result. If foreign powers arrogated was the robbery of our friend and ally. to themselves to choose or exclude particular individuals from the sovereignty of a State, what became of that undoubted power which the noble Earl contended was

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The House divided on the Motion. content, Present 59; Proxies 73, 132; Content, Present 39; Proxies 56-95; Majority for Ministers-37.

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